[Bonjoy]

These guys are doing 8c and 8c+ routes on vertical granite walls at places like monseratt in a few trys. you do not get more techniqual and thin routes such as these.

 I was under the impression Monserrat was conglomerate towers, ie yarding on sticky out pebbles.

[Bonjoy]

I checked, i'm right. Its big pockety pebbly bucket pulling, not good training for Burbage methinks.

[AndyR]

These guys are doing 8c and 8c+ routes on vertical granite walls at places like monseratt in a few trys. you do not get more techniqual and thin routes such as these.

 I was under the impression Monserrat was conglomerate towers, ie yarding on sticky out pebbles.

I was going to say that, but I knew Fatboy would only accuse me of being a geo-bore again  :D

There are some super-thin and technical granite walls on Corsica though - didn't one of the Petits do an 8c there??

[Bubba]

There might be more than one Montserrat but you're right, the well known one certainly isn't granite....

It's a very strange place to climb and one route can offer several different styles of climbing and even several different types of rock. The "pebbles" range in size from tiny to enormous and you can find yourself with one hand on a bit of limestone and the other on a bit of sandstone.

But it's certainly not just pocket/pebble pulling - there's some very technical climbing there.

[Bubba]

I don't see why some of these top Spanish boys, one of whom has done 9a in a day ffs wouldn't come over here and clean up. I'm sure these guys climb hard at places like Font and aren't going to fail just because the climbing is slopey and insecure. Think how easy these routes would feel to them?

[dave]

you can't underestimate the head aspect though. i know its easy to say XXX person has done 100 9as thus would clean up on grit, but then again mclure has done 9as, gaskins has, moon has done damn near and with the greatest respect non of them have done much if anything i the way of the hardest trad routes on grit.

remember, you can be bouldering font 7c or whatever and 5b friction moves a long way above gear or solo can always feel scetchy and desperate - believe me. i imagine its also possible for a similar thing to happen at the top level.

but then again if these guys are as strong as LPT8c says, then i really wanna see them over here doing shit to prove it one way or another, otherwise its all talk, and talk is cheap.

[Bubba]

I guess that some of them wouldn't have the head for it, but there will be those that do. And how much of the hardest grit stuff has been onsighted even by UK climbers?

I think Mauro Calibani would be a strong candidate for a foreigner climbing hard-grit - world champion boulderer who's into trad and grit - he's put up an E9 in Italy and has onsighted E6 on grit already.

[dave]

bits and bobs have been onsighted/groundup on grit innit. doug, carmen picasso, countdown etc. probably more that no-one knows about. jordan tried to ground-up the zone, which is still on if he gets psyched to back.

[Nigel]

I think Mauro Calibani would be a strong candidate for a foreigner climbing hard-grit - world champion boulderer who's into trad and grit - he's put up an E9 in Italy and has onsighted E6 on grit already.

Word to Mauro. But lets not forget lanky loud Northumberland V14 beast Andy Earl who is also a World Cup wad and has put up loads of E8's and probably a couple of E9's.

[Bonjoy]

I don't doubt if the top climbers from anywhere in the world applied themselves to grits hardest they wouldn't find them too hard. However onsighting Equilibrium is another matter. I'm not saying they couldn't do it, I'm saying they wouldn't because without (and even with) a good knowledge of the perculiarities(sp) of grit, an onsight would involve too much risk of falling, too much uncertainty. Even if 9 times out of 10 you can piss up said grade, who's going to be stupid enough to risk it on unfamiliar ground? I dare say there could be people in the UK who might be able to onsight Equilibrium, but it's unlikely to happen anytime soon by persons of any nationality. Personally I suspect that some of this professed disinterest in climbing in the UK has as much to do with self preservation as anything else.

[Bubba]

Not dissing the Earl, but aren't we talking hardcore Johnny Foreigners here?

[Nigel]

Fair do's, but he is a geordie.

[Buoux 8C]

Regarding monsterrat, i know the place isnt grante, not sure what i was thinking their, especially as i spent a week their once. It definetly isnt large pebble pulling though not in the high grades of 8c and above, the routes are as thin as anything and involve crimping very very small lumps of rock. The have climbed 8c+ routes on granite aswell, i cant think of the area though, i spoke to ramonet about it and saw some pictures, the routes are hideously thin. When i find out what the area is called il post it up.
When where talking about the head aspect, i dont think although alot easir they would be able to do something like Indian face flash, its to high and serious and they definetly would shit themselves. However Equillibrium just isnt dangerous, with a good belayer you will not hit the floor, from any of the hard moves, yes the top is a bit dangerous but its easy their. Besides its not exactly scary to look at is it. I think if you where to assure them they are ok they will have no problem going for it. And the climbing is no different to alot of things they have done in font etc etc.
So long as they know they wont hurt themselves, its no problem. Stuff like meshuga on the other hand, would need someone with a bit more of a reckless approach.
Their are many routes on grit that arnt dangerous and get very big numbers, i can think of 3 E10 routes that people have fallen off and been ok, as well as a load of E9's.
And there are some people that have on sighting in mind on these hard routes that are more than capable of doing it, mentioning no names but i am pretty sure stuff will get done this winter.

Personally I suspect that some of this professed disinterest in climbing in the UK has as much to do with self preservation as anything else.

Not quite sure what you mean by that, but i think that alot of british climbers are quite pleased that any foreign climbers havent been over to britain and pissed all or apparent test pieces. With certain exceptions i would say that most of the sport routes in britain are relatively soft for the gradesor even overgraded compared to certain areas in europe (Im not talking about Gorge Du tarn etc), and certainly wouldnt cause these guys any problems, i would be shocked if they didnt leave the country with an almighty tick list laughing at our supposed hard routes.

[Bonjoy]

Personally I suspect that some of this professed disinterest in climbing in the UK has as much to do with self preservation as anything else.

Not quite sure what you mean by that

I just mean maybe they don't want to die on holiday innit.

 You are probly right about these euro-mutants, I don't have enough experience of european climbing and climbers to make a proper comment really :cry:

[Buoux 8C]

Ok sorry Bonjoy,  wasnt quite sure what you meant, yor probably right about them not wanting to die. Of course their is exceptions (Toby benham) who if anyones intersted is coming to britain to try his luck even further in january (judder judder).

Really i know i bang on about these european mutants, but they realy are something else and even make the like of Sharma and graham look mediocre.

If only i could climb that well, i could just nip to raven tor for the afternoon and have a quick redpoint of Mutation, then warm down on Mecca on site. (fingers crossed).

[AndyR]

The have climbed 8c+ routes on granite aswell, i cant think of the area though

La Pedriza - just north of Madrid?

[a dense loner]

Really i know i bang on about these european mutants, but they realy are something else and even make the like of Sharma and graham look mediocre.

is that why sharma did realization? is that why graham did AD? on the subject of them two, they climb at the top level all over the world on different types of rock. there really is no putdown anyone can direct at them, except out of own amusement. no one on the planet would make them look mediocre!

[dave]

good point. if they make sharma etc look mediocre, then why aren't they putting up F10a routes right now?

[Buoux 8C]

Ok they probably dont make them look mediocre, but they are without doubt another level to Sharma and Graham in routes anyway.

Two examples, Paxti usobiaga completed realisation this year needing very few tries on the route compared to sharma's huge amount of attempts, he also suggested that realisation is pretty ok compared to ramonets La Rambla and in comparision is proabably only 9a. Lets not forget that ramonet completed the first part biographie in only one day, an amazing effort. Paxti has also onsighted this year alone 5 8b+ routes, a feat that no one else has come close to in a lifetime.

Another example, Dave graham in siurana attempts a pretty famous hard project, trys it a fair bit, finds it horrendus, dosent really make much of an impression. Up comes ramonet for a weekends climbing, on the first day he completes another 9a project that he has been trying, he then does an 8c in a few tries in the same day, he also looks on the other project that graham had tried. Climbs up it once then goes home for a deserved rest.
The next day Graham and Ramonet at the same cliff, Ramonet has another look at this very hard prject, puts in his clips, lowers down, 20 minutes later sends it like it was a fucking warm up absoloutely no effort at all. Graham sits down watching, fucking gobsmacked to say the least, ramonet goes home with a new route, chikane 8c+. Not sure what Grahma was thinking at this time.

Really i know their are alot of amazing climbers out their and grahams ascent of Action directe in only 6 days is amazing, but these young boys really are a new breed, you have to see it to believe it. Really if you watched them climb you would rant as much as me, it really is truly inspiring.

[Nigel]

I'm with Rich on this one. I've seen both Graham and Patxi on Realization in the flesh, and Sharma on it on video. Patxi was obviously in another league on a route of this style - he was absolutely cruising, locking off the move that Sharma kept falling on, this after comparatively little time on the route. Basically this route is nowhere near his limit!

[a dense loner]

i'm not disputing that they're wads at all. all i'm saying is that there is a massive massive difference between climbing all these hideous routes on lime or granite on your own turf, so to speak, n being paid to fly around the world doing cutting edge boulder probs n routes in many different countries on many different rock types.
just like jerry did back in the day :wink:

[Bubba]

More awesome footage of Huber soloing:

http://www.berghaus.com/our_people/berghaus_team/alex_huber_hi.asx