[Fiend]

Ahem.

[andy moles]

Can we clarify the meaning of spad here - is it the presence of loads of fixed gear, the redpointing approach, or both equally?

[Fiend]

Don't just clarify the Spad, BE the Spad 

I think it's as much "both equally" as possible. Someone asked me on messenger, and I speculated:

Trad done as sport with extensive practising , pre-placed gear, as much insitu gear as possible.

Basically like headpointing but with even more bullshit

Johnny Trort's original Spad link: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,34038.0.html

[andy moles]

Trad done as sport with extensive practising , pre-placed gear, as much insitu gear as possible.

Basically like headpointing but with even more bullshit

Ah, so in the case of Dalriada for example you mean that people are doing it on pre-placed gear rather than just headpointing? (I know Dalriada originally had a million pegs but I don't think it has so many now)

[SA Chris]

Can we clarify the meaning of spad here - is it the presence of loads of fixed gear, the redpointing approach, or both equally?

Just call a spad a spad.

[andy moles]

You should have an option for slate, where there are trad-graded routes protected entirely by bolts and sport-graded routes that are more sketchy than some of the trad.

[Fiend]

I should have had Stoney Middlespad in too, the spiritual home of polishing the shit out of routes by endless top-rope laps. But I didn't think of them in time.

If a moderator wants to add them, and maybe make this topic a sticky thread, that would be fine.

[spidermonkey09]

Who actually cares though? Or are you just getting back on your well worn hobby horse about the death of onsight climbing Fiend? 

[andy moles]

I'm not really down with lumping redpointing on pre-placed gear in with having (semi) permanent fixed gear on trad routes.

Basically I have no problem whatsoever with the former, provided people aren't pretending to be doing something different. People can climb how they like, as long as it doesn't affect the route for others. Yes, working a route to death means climbing it more which means more polish, but where do you draw a line? A relatively quick headpoint could easily cause less polish and wear than a multi-attempt ground-up.

The status quo on fixed gear, on the other hand, is a heap of bullshit. I've argued before for having durable placements (i.e. bolts) in limited cases on trad routes, but to be honest I'd sacrifice that to do away with all the other middle-ground crap that continues to be placed on new routes even now.

[Fiend]

Who actually cares though? Or are you just getting back on your well worn hobby horse about the death of onsight climbing Fiend? 

What?? Come on spaddermonkey09, this is celebrating the glory of Spad and the finest Spadding venues in the UK (apart from the ones I forgot) 

[jakaitch]

Old man shakes fist at clouds

[SA Chris]

I'm an old man, I hate everything except Matlock*

*The TV detective not the place. I expect he hates that too.

[danm]

Hells bells Fiend, you had me shitting myself for a second! I thought this was about the triumphant return of Dominic Cummings as the new adviser to the next Prime Minister. Imagine my relief when I realised it was merely a cry for a return to a bygone era, when trad was rad and sport was something to do with hare coursing or when carousing with ones mistress.

[Fiend]

I'm an old man, I hate everything except Matlock*

*The TV detective not the place. I expect he hates that too.

Oi. I think Matlock is great. Almost the gateway to the magificent Intake Quarry for a start. Also got top spadding potential at High Tor once the local obsessive puts a network of abseil anchors in.

Things I do hate: cricket, cycling, football, DIY (not the route, that's lovely), UK politics, US politics (although I recognise they have some rubbernecking / alarmist interest), errr maybe other things...

[Adam Lincoln]

Gigantic isnt 8a+ btw.

[X]

I have no problem whatsoever with the former, provided people aren't pretending to be doing something different.

I agree with this but I have a sneaking suspicion that, if these routes didn’t get largish E numbers then people wouldn’t be bothering with them. So, I’d rather people stop kidding themselves about the E numbers and not add to the polish (nor add random belays, via ferratas, etc., etc.).

[andy moles]

I have no problem whatsoever with the former, provided people aren't pretending to be doing something different.

I agree with this but I have a sneaking suspicion that, if these routes didn’t get largish E numbers then people wouldn’t be bothering with them. So, I’d rather people stop kidding themselves about the E numbers and not add to the polish (nor add random belays, via ferratas, etc., etc.).

Agree it's probably a factor sometimes. French grades for headpoints.