[Von T]

I was on From a Distance in Stennis Ford today and noticed that the pretty crucial RH jug on the first crux is pretty wobbly and on its last legs.
Just wondering what's the ethic on a classic/popular route like this? Let the hold fall off and make the big move significantly harder, or is a dab of sika in order? I'm not local, or experienced in gluing routes together so looking for some guidance/ more experienced opinion.

I took a photo of the hold in question but it's too big to upload on here it seems.

[SiWitcher]

I'd recommend not putting sika on a Pembroke trad classic. For context, routes and entire cliffs at Pembroke fall over from time to time, like the Public Enemy area at St Govan's. All part of the fun. I don't know of any examples of holds being reinforced with sika at Pembroke previously - if they have been, the sculptor has probably kept quiet about it.

[Von T]

Cool, thanks. I'll let it be then. I'll just try and get the route done before it gets too hard for me 

[Tony S]

I don't know of any examples of holds being reinforced with sika at Pembroke previously - if they have been, the sculptor has probably kept quiet about it.

I think this has been done at Pembroke previously. I can’t put my finger on where though; I certainly know of bolt stubs which have been sika’d over and it is well known there have been some acts of downright vandalism at Pembroke historically.

If Von T is competent and wants to sika the hold without making a mess, go for it. Lots of good advice on threads on here for sika’ing limestone - do your research.

As Si hints, do not claim responsibility if you do it and it goes well. Do expect a lot of criticism if you mess it up.

Doing nothing is likely the safer option. One person’s crucial is another’s …

[Bonjoy]

To be pedantic, removing the hold is the safe option if gluing is decided against

[SA Chris]

To be pedantic sensible, removing the hold is the safe option if gluing is decided against

[Tony S]

To be pedantic, removing the hold is the safe option if gluing is decided against

Based on the information we have available, I disagree.

For the pedants, the “safe” in my reply was in relation to reputation of the individual (not) doing the remediation work.

If one chooses to attempt to onsight an E7 (especially on a sea cliff) then one should accept the need to assess the risks for one’s self as one is climbing. If one chooses to pre-inspect then one will identify the hold during the pre-inspection process (as has happened here).

I would very much not condone deliberately removing the hold based on the information available to us on this thread. This would certainly not be “safe” as per my meaning.

[Bonjoy]

Objectively the route would be safer if a hold that is "on its last legs" were removed. That's all I was implying. No more, no less. Given my role I'm wary of offering opinions on the rights and wrongs of either gluing or loose hold removal. That's why I didn't.
There are multiple ways of dealing with loose holds, not just ignoring or gluing. I didn't think it was controversial to point this out.
Not massively stoked about this being called "akin to condoning chipping" in the karma log.

[Tony S]

Objectively the route would be safer if a hold that is "on its last legs" were removed.

I presume you do not know Von T and their ability to assess the stability of a hold. To me they are a random person posting on a public internet forum - could be anyone. I do not know whether they predominantly climb sport or trad, frequent Craig Doris and Cilan Main.

I have frequently seen chalked X’s on blocks that would require a crowbar to remove. “Last legs” is an entirely subjective comment.

I would not even hint at removing a block on a public forum without wanting to see it for myself.

[Tony S]

I see some have been upset by my puntering Jon Boy with the comment, “Akin to condoning chipping.”

I’d point out:
1) that “akin” does not mean “the same as”, it means “similar” or (more literally) “related”. I meant this in the sense that chipping (often) removes some of the difficulty for those without the physical ability; the removal of perceived loose holds could be considered the removal of uncertainty for those without the psychological ability. Hence “akin”. Besides chipping and cleaning (aka removal of loose holds) has always been poorly delineated.

2) I don’t take “wadding” or “puntering” very seriously, you may have noticed.

[ToxicBilberry]

Ignore SiWitch - he’s got form for being grumpy about fixing gear and holds. Leaver the loose hold off, wire brush behind it and then glue it back on with epoxy resin - it will be invisible if done properly. Just wait for a quiet day and don’t ask for consensus. It reminds me of a story about Gary Gibson being heckled at a talk he gave - ‘hey Gary I’ve memorised all the holds in cheedale in case you do any chipping’ Gary: ‘that’s funny because I’ve made most of them’
https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/filling-and-grab-adhesives/sika-300ml-anchorfix-1-epoxy-resin/p/508805