the shizzle > chuffing
closed project etiquette
User deactivated.:
If I was the first ascensionist of a boulder problem by way of closing it to others then the FA would feel very artificial.
I enjoy the satisfaction of doing a FA because it signifies being (1) lucky enough to find it, (2) bothered enough to prepare it, and (3) good enough to climb it before others do! Ticking all three provides the most satisfaction, so personally i'm not keen on nicking projects off others (unless long forgotten), but because of (3) I wouldn't want to prohibit others from nicking mine.
I tend to stack the deck against myself even further by shouting about how good my recent finds are :lol: Best man wins though init.
edshakey:
--- Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 25, 2024, 02:53:03 pm ---If I was the first ascensionist of a boulder problem by way of closing it to others then the FA would feel very artificial.
I enjoy the satisfaction of doing a FA because it signifies being (1) lucky enough to find it, (2) bothered enough to prepare it, and (3) good enough to climb it before others do! Ticking all three provides the most satisfaction, so personally i'm not keen on nicking projects off others (unless long forgotten), but because of (3) I wouldn't want to prohibit others from nicking mine.
I tend to stack the deck against myself even further by shouting about how good my recent finds are :lol: Best man wins though init.
--- End quote ---
Broadly agree with this, although I suppose there is a non trivial difference between boulders and routes, given that bolting costs effort and money. It seems sensible that someone going to the effort of drilling bolts should be given some amount of time to get the route ticked, rather than being fearful of others deliberately swooping in and nicking the FA.
Overall, the principle of effort invested to the benefit of others being proportional to time the project stays closed seems broadly fair. If someone spends ages cleaning, bolting, landscaping etc, they probably deserve a bit more time than someone who doesn't have to do any of that.
In that respect, I think you (Liam) would be within your right to ask people not to jump in and nick a first ascent if you've spent a while cleaning the holds and topout, building a landing, etc, when they will clearly benefit from your work. Although obviously if you aren't bothered, then no problem either!
stone:
I get the impression UK limestone sport routes typically involve plenty of arts-and-craft work, deciding which loose holds to jettison and which to brush off the woodlice from behind and glue back on. People with experience of this told me that in the wrong hands eg Harderobe could have been rubbish instead of the mega-popular instant classic it is.
I guess there isn't so much overlap between the people up for doing that route preparation and the people who might potentially nip in and flash them as soon as the glue had dried (or before). There are examples of routes being "stolen" on the 8mm cleaning bolts and loose holds before being sorted out by the route-preparer. That leaves things in limbo a bit.
abarro81:
Personally I think a bolter should be given a "reasonable" amount of time as a closed proj if they want it. What's reasonable is obviously a bit vague, but in this country I think it has to be vague - e.g. a hard two year rule wouldn't make sense for a route at the cornice if it was a bad 2 years and it didn't dry out!
One key thing is if they're actively trying the route too. If someone was 5 years deep on a big proj where they'd spent days cleaning, putting in nice glue-ins, gluing loose holds etc. and that was their all-consuming passion then I'd be less likely to whine about it being closed. If they bashed one 10 mm bolt in and didn't go back for 2 years then it should be open - no baggsying things for the future by popping one or two bolts in.
stone:
I suppose the archetypal examples have been where people have put quite a lot of work in, have tried it loads for a season or two and then have tried it less and less (or at all) with each passing year for many many years.
The problem with not having any sort of convention is that, in the absence of a convention, whoever calls it as being a lost cause is going to vilified (just look at old threads on here).
Are there great eg Cornice routes that wouldn't have been developed as nicely if there had been such a convention?
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