[SamT]

Caving was always an interest for the 60s/70's stoney and yorkshire lot. 

I'm not sure Livesey, Procter stopped to go caving or visa versa.. they were always done in tandem.  Caving was a good alternative when the crags were wet.

Geoff Birtles and Bob Dearman were both into their caving too.

I did however, practially stop climbing overnight, when I discovered caving.. which I persued for a decade or so, and have now pretty much hung my wellies up and am back climbing.

[T_B]

So on a sunny, spring evening with the birds chirping you would … go down a cave?

[duncan]

On topic - what about Pete Livesey? I know he famously gave up climbing and got into running (after earlier having been into caving?), but not sure how sudden it was?

It appeard abrupt and complete, like Moffatt. The armchair psychologist in me sensed both stopped climbing when they thought they were no longer contenders. Livesey became a very high standard orienteer and had been, as you say, a bold exploratory caver.

Si Reed gave up on Mecca Extension and started running. I was a sedentary supporter of his Bob Graham Round, a great day for a vicarious fell-runner like me.

[Oldmanmatt]

I went surfing when I stopped - often saw Jerry on the East coast

This.
I struggled for several years after getting back from the disaster on South Georgia. Stuff I would later recognise as PTSD and I didn’t climb in any way again until ‘96 ish, almost four years later. The first year, the frostbite recovery meant rock shoes were just too much, anyway.
I didn’t meet Jerry, but I was on friendly greeting terms with Andrew Ridgeley, who was down Watergate most days there was a break.

[SA Chris]

Wonder how much royalties he actually gets every Christmas.

[SamT]

So on a sunny, spring evening with the birds chirping you would … go down a cave?

Yep. . 'fraid so.  Perfect climbing weather was spent scrotting around muddy abandondoned led mines and caves.
I was climbing really well at the time too.. headpointing E7, nearly onsighting E6.

I'd always loved caving in scouts, always a deep seated fascination with the various holes and miles around castleton growing up, so when I met a few lads that gave me a gateway and skills to start exploring them, I was instantly hooked.  Took me a long time to get back to being anywhere half decent at climbing when I started again.  Ho Hum, don't regret anythying really, was fun times, and I still have a few projects that never got concluded that I might one day get back to, if my body allows.  But for now, I defintely prefer being on the crags.

[Paul B]

I think I've said this elsewhere on the forum but Ian Cummins who taught me how to climb turned to caving. When I was at his funeral/wake all of the cavers were saying they'd been over to Wales for a stag-do and had all declined the day activity of MTBing to go caving instead as it was unjustifiably dangerous. This did make me chuckle a bit.

[thomas røllins]

The only one I know who started with MBT very young competed in downhill since his teens. He said that he counted on getting at least one fracture per year and that the trick is to stop biking before you get an open complicated fracture. In his estimation climbing was much safer.

That is what I observe here  in the Pacific North West. Teens who climb start indoors, are more likely to graduate to outdoor bouldering than, say, runout trad, and generally experience a pretty low risk sport. If they get into mountain biking instead, which many do, the injuries come fast and frequent. It is expected.

Until a few years ago, there was a trend here for older climbers to give up climbing in favour of mountain biking. That seems to have stopped now, maybe because the understanding of the risks of MTB has grown. Some of the old guys who gave up climbing for mountain biking are now giving up mountain biking for gravel biking, whatever the fuck that is (they get to buy a new bike, at least).

[Tom de Gay]

I think I've said this elsewhere on the forum but Ian Cummins who taught me how to climb turned to caving. When I was at his funeral/wake all of the cavers were saying they'd been over to Wales for a stag-do and had all declined the day activity of MTBing to go caving instead as it was unjustifiably dangerous. This did make me chuckle a bit.

I met Ian at Goldsborough in '08. He'd spent the whole night caving, but proceeded to do Beth's Traverse first go and comprehensively burned me off on other stuff.

[dunnyg]

I never caved with him, but I was inspired by plenty of his trip reports and know plenty who did go underground with him. He was a hard caver and continued to climb some pretty gnarly things in his wellies too.

[ferret]

The only one I know who started with MBT very young competed in downhill since his teens. He said that he counted on getting at least one fracture per year and that the trick is to stop biking before you get an open complicated fracture. In his estimation climbing was much safer.

That is what I observe here  in the Pacific North West. Teens who climb start indoors, are more likely to graduate to outdoor bouldering than, say, runout trad, and generally experience a pretty low risk sport. If they get into mountain biking instead, which many do, the injuries come fast and frequent. It is expected.

Until a few years ago, there was a trend here for older climbers to give up climbing in favour of mountain biking. That seems to have stopped now, maybe because the understanding of the risks of MTB has grown. Some of the old guys who gave up climbing for mountain biking are now giving up mountain biking for gravel biking, whatever the fuck that is (they get to buy a new bike, at least).

Mountain biking in the gravity focused disciplines is hard to measure against climbing. It’s very rare for somebody to get killed and you almost never get those tendon and muscle injuries that are a constant in climbing, however broken bones and head injuries are all too common.
IMO its a very hard sport to learn as physical training will only have lead to marginal improvements and there’s very few ways to practice without exposing yourself to danger. It’s like trying to improve at climbing while only being able to on sight runout trad routes.
I think the other big difference is as you progress in climbing, a run out route still has the same consequences even if it is harder, the danger has increased only because the margins for error got smaller. MTB the speeds get faster, the jumps get bigger, the rock features get taller and steeper all while the margins get smaller.
I picked it up after I could no longer climb due to injury about 12 years ago and at 47 I’m riding the hardest I ever have. Rapidly approaching a level where to keep progressing the consequences will be too high for me personally but I doubt that would damp my enthusiasm overall.

[petejh]

Concur with MTB more likely to hurt you than climbing. I compare mtb DH to riding a motorbike fast on the road - loads of natural features to hit, unpredictable environment, speed is the incentive inherent in the activity, speed leads to smaller margins. I always feel at risk of spannering myself on a bike, rarely on a climb.

Thinking about the 2 activities in a risk of harm assessment using a 'likelihood of hazard x consequences of hazard' framework, I'd categorise them something like:
Climbing (intermediate level trad or typical alpinsm/winter climbing) = low likelihood (2) x high consequences (4 or 5) = 8 - 10 level of risk
MTB (DH, intermediate/advanced) = high likelihood (4 or 5) x medium consequences (3 or 4) = 12 to 20 level of risk

[andy popp]

IMO its a very hard sport to learn as physical training will only have lead to marginal improvements and there’s very few ways to practice without exposing yourself to danger. It’s like trying to improve at climbing while only being able to on sight runout trad routes.

This is, of course, exactly how generations of climbers tried to improve at climbing. It might not be very good at getting you to 9A or 9b, but it can still be very effective (especially, but not only, at getting good at on sighting runout trad).

[accynez]

Peel or Moffatt (I think they both do). As much as I love it, it's too unreliable here to commit to doing it only.

JP don't surf 
Nor has he ever given up climbing, lives in Spain and climbs several times a week. Still cranking in his late 70's!

Has anybody mentioned Basher? Mecca then off to Switzerland and work. Back here and was climbing again in recent years.

[andy popp]

Has anybody mentioned Basher?

And, unless I missed it, no-one has mentioned Ben Moon. I think he stopped pretty abruptly and for quite a long time, though obviously started again.

[clm]

Concur with MTB more likely to hurt you than climbing. I compare mtb DH to riding a motorbike fast on the road - loads of natural features to hit, unpredictable environment, speed is the incentive inherent in the activity, speed leads to smaller margins. I always feel at risk of spannering myself on a bike, rarely on a climb.

Thinking about the 2 activities in a risk of harm assessment using a 'likelihood of hazard x consequences of hazard' framework, I'd categorise them something like:
Climbing (intermediate level trad or typical alpinsm/winter climbing) = low likelihood (2) x high consequences (4 or 5) = 8 - 10 level of risk
MTB (DH, intermediate/advanced) = high likelihood (4 or 5) x medium consequences (3 or 4) = 12 to 20 level of risk

I wonder if there’s a tendency for people to get “overbiked” quite quickly and charge down something they shouldn’t. Maybe akin to someone getting a new pair of climbing shoes and thinking it allows them to climb E6.

[Paul B]

I'm not convinced that's the issue. I rode MTBs a lot before I climbed and returned to it a few years ago and my impression is that it always feels like there's a high chance of low-medium level injury. Even on my gravel bike I got bogged down in some sand after a gate (during the prolonged dry period last year in the UK) and managed to land on a large lump of gritstone, right in the ribs (after taking the decision not to stick my arm out and break my collar bone).

[stone]

IMO its a very hard sport to learn as physical training will only have lead to marginal improvements and there’s very few ways to practice without exposing yourself to danger. It’s like trying to improve at climbing while only being able to on sight runout trad routes.

This is, of course, exactly how generations of climbers tried to improve at climbing. It might not be very good at getting you to 9A or 9b, but it can still be very effective (especially, but not only, at getting good at on sighting runout trad).

I think you are commenting in your capacity as someone with outstanding talents at on-sighting runout trad!

I'm very much at the other end of that spectrum. My only hope at vaguely competent trad climbing would be as an adjunct to being prolific at climbing more compatible with my lack of moral fibre.

[SA Chris]

Even on my gravel bike I got bogged down in some sand after a gate (during the prolonged dry period last year in the UK) and managed to land on a large lump of gritstone, right in the ribs (after taking the decision not to stick my arm out and break my collar bone).

Entire UKB looks on, unsurprised, as PaulB nearly picks up another harrowing injury