[yetix]

My partner and I drink it and other overly caffinated beverages

[Wil]

I suspect if I were in a position to be sponsored, I doubt my morals would extend to saying no to generous, high-profile money from over-caffeinated sugary drink company. It sounds like athletes get a better deal from them than many places, including medical insurance, and scratching a living as a pro athlete must be hard enough. I do find it troubling how ubiquitous it is though.

As a teacher I've seen the effect that sugar marketing has. Kids genuinely believe that drinking over-caffeinated sugary drink company will help them to concentrate in class and do better. These are often the same kids whose parents send them to school with no breakfast (which is worryingly common in some schools). I've had kids throw up on me because they've chugged 2 Lucozades for breakfast. One lad had 5 Mars bars for his lunch - he bounced off the walls for 10 minutes before I had to ask the TA to take him for a run around the building. He had no idea that this might be bad for him, and I had to talk him through what he should eat for lunch and why all that sugar had ended up with him misbehaving. He was 16, and somehow all of the healthy eating messages had passed him by, but he actually responded really well and started showing up with fruit instead.

[Dingdong]

I suspect if I were in a position to be sponsored, I doubt my morals would extend to saying no to generous, high-profile money from over-caffeinated sugary drink company. It sounds like athletes get a better deal from them than many places, including medical insurance, and scratching a living as a pro athlete must be hard enough. I do find it troubling how ubiquitous it is though.

As a teacher I've seen the effect that sugar marketing has. Kids genuinely believe that drinking over-caffeinated sugary drink company will help them to concentrate in class and do better. These are often the same kids whose parents send them to school with no breakfast (which is worryingly common in some schools). I've had kids throw up on me because they've chugged 2 Lucozades for breakfast. One lad had 5 Mars bars for his lunch - he bounced off the walls for 10 minutes before I had to ask the TA to take him for a run around the building. He had no idea that this might be bad for him, and I had to talk him through what he should eat for lunch and why all that sugar had ended up with him misbehaving. He was 16, and somehow all of the healthy eating messages had passed him by, but he actually responded really well and started showing up with fruit instead.

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

[User deactivated.]

I suspect if I were in a position to be sponsored, I doubt my morals would extend to saying no to generous, high-profile money from over-caffeinated sugary drink company. It sounds like athletes get a better deal from them than many places, including medical insurance, and scratching a living as a pro athlete must be hard enough. I do find it troubling how ubiquitous it is though.

As a teacher I've seen the effect that sugar marketing has. Kids genuinely believe that drinking over-caffeinated sugary drink company will help them to concentrate in class and do better. These are often the same kids whose parents send them to school with no breakfast (which is worryingly common in some schools). I've had kids throw up on me because they've chugged 2 Lucozades for breakfast. One lad had 5 Mars bars for his lunch - he bounced off the walls for 10 minutes before I had to ask the TA to take him for a run around the building. He had no idea that this might be bad for him, and I had to talk him through what he should eat for lunch and why all that sugar had ended up with him misbehaving. He was 16, and somehow all of the healthy eating messages had passed him by, but he actually responded really well and started showing up with fruit instead.

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

Regardless of the mechanisms at play behind the hyperactivity, mars bars for apples is a good switch in my book and I'd commend Wil on how that situation was handled. It sounds like you had a very positive impact on that kid that will probably improve his quality of life significantly. That's what teaching should be all about. 

[Nails]

So R e d Bull make a drink now do they? I thought they were a charity sponsoring High Testosterone Outdoor Crazy Shit!

[abarro81]

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

And yet the first study on the google results for "blood sugar spike behaviour" is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16005606/
I don't have the time or inclination to dig into this (and I can see plenty of newspaper articles backing up your statement), but it seems extraordinary to claim that energy levels are not influenced by diet and/or that energy levels do not influence behaviour... they certainly influence mine, though of course energy levels are about more than whether you smashed in 5 mars bars...

[Dingdong]

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

And yet the first study on the google results for "blood sugar spike behaviour" is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16005606/
I don't have the time or inclination to dig into this (and I can see plenty of newspaper articles backing up your statement), but it seems extraordinary to claim that energy levels are not influenced by diet and/or that energy levels do not influence behaviour... they certainly influence mine, though of course energy levels are about more than whether you smashed in 5 mars bars...

Unfortunately I can’t read the full study but it’s quite well known that the sugar/hyper myth is just that, a myth and that usually it’s parents placing their preconceived expectations of the effects of sugar on their kids, really children have a shit ton of energy and if you try and make them sit still for hours a day they’re going to want to bounce around, obviously not all children are the same but you can’t expect them to behave like adults, while sugar can of course give you “energy” it doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you hyperactive and unable to focus etc.

Some studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133757/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3598008/

Of course eating sugar in high quantities is bad for kids but there isn’t really any evidence that it makes kids hyper

[abarro81]

while sugar can of course give you “energy” it doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you hyperactive and unable to focus

If I eat a five pack of cookies in one go I sometimes literally can't focus my eyes properly. Does that count? 

[Rocksteady]

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

And yet the first study on the google results for "blood sugar spike behaviour" is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16005606/
I don't have the time or inclination to dig into this (and I can see plenty of newspaper articles backing up your statement), but it seems extraordinary to claim that energy levels are not influenced by diet and/or that energy levels do not influence behaviour... they certainly influence mine, though of course energy levels are about more than whether you smashed in 5 mars bars...

Unfortunately I can’t read the full study but it’s quite well known that the sugar/hyper myth is just that, a myth and that usually it’s parents placing their preconceived expectations of the effects of sugar on their kids, really children have a shit ton of energy and if you try and make them sit still for hours a day they’re going to want to bounce around, obviously not all children are the same but you can’t expect them to behave like adults, while sugar can of course give you “energy” it doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you hyperactive and unable to focus etc.

Some studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133757/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3598008/

Of course eating sugar in high quantities is bad for kids but there isn’t really any evidence that it makes kids hyper

A quick read of that first study suggests that what it's saying is:

Sugar consumption DOES have a link to hyperactive behaviour, but NOT to ADHD?

"Simple sugar consumption may cause hyperactivity, given that snacks containing high sugar content cause massive secretion of insulin from the pancreas, resulting in hypoglycemia [9]. This stimulates an increase in epinephrine, leading to activation of nervous reactions and hyperactivity disorder behaviors [9]. In other words, elevated intake of snacks might increase the potential of nutritional imbalance, lower emotional intelligence [10-11], and ADHD [12-14]. A recent study on sugar consumption suggested that higher consumption of sugar is positively correlated with a higher level of hyperactivity and attention deficiency similar to ADHD [1,9,11,15]. However, it is still controversial whether or not there is an association between ADHD and sugar consumption."

[Dingdong]

while sugar can of course give you “energy” it doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you hyperactive and unable to focus

If I eat a five pack of cookies in one go I sometimes literally can't focus my eyes properly. Does that count? 

I ate a 10 pack last week and was fine, this might be a you thing Alex 

[Dingdong]

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

And yet the first study on the google results for "blood sugar spike behaviour" is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16005606/
I don't have the time or inclination to dig into this (and I can see plenty of newspaper articles backing up your statement), but it seems extraordinary to claim that energy levels are not influenced by diet and/or that energy levels do not influence behaviour... they certainly influence mine, though of course energy levels are about more than whether you smashed in 5 mars bars...

Unfortunately I can’t read the full study but it’s quite well known that the sugar/hyper myth is just that, a myth and that usually it’s parents placing their preconceived expectations of the effects of sugar on their kids, really children have a shit ton of energy and if you try and make them sit still for hours a day they’re going to want to bounce around, obviously not all children are the same but you can’t expect them to behave like adults, while sugar can of course give you “energy” it doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you hyperactive and unable to focus etc.

Some studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133757/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3598008/

Of course eating sugar in high quantities is bad for kids but there isn’t really any evidence that it makes kids hyper

A quick read of that first study suggests that what it's saying is:

Sugar consumption DOES have a link to hyperactive behaviour, but NOT to ADHD?

"Simple sugar consumption may cause hyperactivity, given that snacks containing high sugar content cause massive secretion of insulin from the pancreas, resulting in hypoglycemia [9]. This stimulates an increase in epinephrine, leading to activation of nervous reactions and hyperactivity disorder behaviors [9]. In other words, elevated intake of snacks might increase the potential of nutritional imbalance, lower emotional intelligence [10-11], and ADHD [12-14]. A recent study on sugar consumption suggested that higher consumption of sugar is positively correlated with a higher level of hyperactivity and attention deficiency similar to ADHD [1,9,11,15]. However, it is still controversial whether or not there is an association between ADHD and sugar consumption."

The same study:

This study did not observe any link between dietary behaviors and ADHD in school age students. The first reason for consuming sugar in both the risk and normal groups was taste, whereas the second reason was hunger for the ADHD group (44.4%) and boredom for the normal group. As a result, dietary behaviors involving regular eating of meals that can eliminate hunger should be recommended to prevent overconsumption of sugary snacks by children.

Several recent studies suggested that ADHD development is related with consumption of coloring agents and preservatives in processed food [6,26]. ADHD could also be connected with intake of simple sugar [26]. Based on this, we compared the levels of sugar consumption between the normal and risk groups. Unexpectedly, the risk group consumed less fruits than the normal group and obtained almost the same amounts of sugar from the other types of snacks as compared to the normal group. Therefore, we concluded that the total consumption of simple sugar from snacks is not associated with ADHD (odd ratio = 0.317, P > 0.05). This result does not support a previous study in which a large amount of sugar consumption caused hyperactivity [6]. Similar to our results, a study by Wolraich et al. [16] that investigated the effects of sugar on behavior and learning competence in 32 hyperactive boys aged 7 to 12 suggested that sugar intake (1.75 g/kg of body weight) has no influence on attention and learning competency.

[Wil]

Agree with your first paragraph but there’s 0 evidence other than 1 study from the 70s which has pretty much been debunked showing that sugar causes hyperactivity in children…

This kid did actually have ADHD, although he was unusually hyperactive that day, regardless of whether the sugar caused it.

[Dingdong]

As a long life ADHD sufferer it always annoyed me when people blamed sugar for my outbursts    if only I’d been medicated properly when I was a wee child

[yetix]

As a fellow life long sufferer, do you find the medication helps. Do you notice any adverse effects?

[Dingdong]

I opted not to take any as i wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, at this point i've just learnt to live with it... I did self medicate with cannabis for a long time though but stopped due to anxiety... gotta love the brain...

[stone]

My other half likes Coco Cola and confectionary so I include it when I do the grocery shopping. I steer clear of drinking or eating that stuff myself though.

Population health would be much improved  if we all ate veg, seeds, fruit, meat etc and drank tap water or milk. I thought that was very well supported by evidence (happy to be corrected though).

I sort of think people should be free to buy unhealthy stuff to some extent. I wonder though whether advertising it is OK. A bit like my view on gambling I guess.

I'd be in favour of having all food and drink advertising banned. It's not clear to me that there is any societal benefit to food and drink advertising. If people want to eat junk food, they are perfectly capable of doing so without adverts. Stuff such as carrots and tap water don't have copyright or whatever and so don't really get advertised. Adverts tilt preference towards the ultra-processed branded stuff that harms us.

[spidermonkey09]

ADHD aside, cause that's a different case, are we really saying that filling kids up with sugar doesn't make them behave differently, in what we might call a "hyperactive" way? Cause that would seem to fly in the face of all observable evidence.

Kids with ADHD may behave in that manner regardless I agree, but I think Rocksteadys reading of that study is correct.

[Dingdong]

ADHD aside, cause that's a different case, are we really saying that filling kids up with sugar doesn't make them behave differently, in what we might call a "hyperactive" way? Cause that would seem to fly in the face of all observable evidence.

Kids with ADHD may behave in that manner regardless I agree, but I think Rocksteadys reading of that study is correct.

Yes ADHD aside that is indeed the case, there’s no proof that giving kids sugary stuff makes them “hyper” it’s an old wives tales

https://www.eatright.org/health/wellness/healthful-habits/sugar-does-it-really-cause-hyperactivity#:~:text=The%20Sweet%20Truth,without%20proving%20sugar%20causes%20hyperactivity.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130722-does-sugar-make-kids-hyperactive

[edshakey]

What about the people (adults, including in this thread) who say they cut down sugar and now don't have a peaks in energy followed by periods of tiredness/low energy? Is it not similar in children, and that's what gets labelled as "hyper"?

[Dingdong]

I think there’s a difference between having some extra energy to work for a few more hours in the afternoon or give their project two more goes Vs hyperactivity which is usually just down to kids being excited and playing (which is what kids do) - I think the whole sugar/hyper thing is so ingrained that everyone assumes the correlation. Also kids can be just as hyper without eating sugar?

[spidermonkey09]

I can see lots of support for your position on the first page of Google so can see where you're coming from but I'm sceptical, mostly because it fails the common sense test. As Alex says, "it seems extraordinary to claim that energy levels are not influenced by diet and/or that energy levels do not influence behaviour."

I actually think the example of a kids party, which is the one used by a lot of the sites on Google p. 1, is a poor one because it's highly likely they would be hyper anyway. The more relevant example is Wils one, notwithstanding the ADHD.

Im going to take some convincing that a load of kids smashing sugar in through their lunch break and then behaving poorly post lunch are unconnected events, basically. Also there appear to be studies that say the opposite of the received wisdom, namely the one Alex found for one.

I'm unlikely to spend hours delving into this unless I get really bored but it's interesting, because I can see the same things you can on Google.

[webbo]

ADHD aside, cause that's a different case, are we really saying that filling kids up with sugar doesn't make them behave differently, in what we might call a "hyperactive" way? Cause that would seem to fly in the face of all observable evidence.

Kids with ADHD may behave in that manner regardless I agree, but I think Rocksteadys reading of that study is correct.

Yes ADHD aside that is indeed the case, there’s no proof that giving kids sugary stuff makes them “hyper” it’s an old wives tales

https://www.eatright.org/health/wellness/healthful-habits/sugar-does-it-really-cause-hyperactivity#:~:text=The%20Sweet%20Truth,without%20proving%20sugar%20causes%20hyperactivity.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130722-does-sugar-make-kids-hyperactive

I might have read those 2 articles incorrectly but they don’t seemed to referenced academic papers.

[Dingdong]

ADHD aside, cause that's a different case, are we really saying that filling kids up with sugar doesn't make them behave differently, in what we might call a "hyperactive" way? Cause that would seem to fly in the face of all observable evidence.

Kids with ADHD may behave in that manner regardless I agree, but I think Rocksteadys reading of that study is correct.

Yes ADHD aside that is indeed the case, there’s no proof that giving kids sugary stuff makes them “hyper” it’s an old wives tales

https://www.eatright.org/health/wellness/healthful-habits/sugar-does-it-really-cause-hyperactivity#:~:text=The%20Sweet%20Truth,without%20proving%20sugar%20causes%20hyperactivity.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130722-does-sugar-make-kids-hyperactive

I might have read those 2 articles incorrectly but they don’t seemed to referenced academic papers.

The bbc article links paper in the text itself:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/391812

Conclusion.  —The meta-analytic synthesis of the studies to date found that sugar does not affect the behavior or cognitive performance of children. The strong belief of parents may be due to expectancy and common association. However, a small effect of sugar or effects on subsets of children cannot be ruled out.(JAMA. 1995;274:1617-1621)

[thunderbeest]

Climbers don’t seem to be that affected by all the money R e d Bull pump into sponsorship do they? Has anyone else ever seen a climber drink one (or any fizzy pop for that matter) at the crag or wall?

As a wall manager who sells that stuff: yes climbers drink it. We sell more over-caffeinated sugary drink company than Monster, but I think compared to the rest of society, a lot less at least. Here in Norway the market of energy drinks has outgrown the soda pops, but we sell almost as much water.

[Dingdong]

I play magic the gathering at patriot games in Sheffield centre and trust me, no one drinks more monster or over-caffeinated sugary drinks than nerds