Regarding the grade, I'm not totally convinced it went up from 8c to 8c+ just due to the crux hold by the 3rd and the pod by the 6th crumbling. Yes these holds have deteriorated but I don't think they were that much better in 1995 to automatically make the route 8c. I think the downgrade to 8c from Jerry's initial 8c+ was a lot to do with the culture of downgrading at that time. For example, Evolution getting downgraded to 8c by Nic from Jerry's 8c+ and that is now regarded as 8c+. Also, 42 being downgraded to 8b due to Nic's near flash. Probably a similar thing happened with Progress.
Quote from: Kingy on August 13, 2024, 06:20:43 pmRegarding the grade, I'm not totally convinced it went up from 8c to 8c+ just due to the crux hold by the 3rd and the pod by the 6th crumbling. Yes these holds have deteriorated but I don't think they were that much better in 1995 to automatically make the route 8c. I think the downgrade to 8c from Jerry's initial 8c+ was a lot to do with the culture of downgrading at that time. For example, Evolution getting downgraded to 8c by Nic from Jerry's 8c+ and that is now regarded as 8c+. Also, 42 being downgraded to 8b due to Nic's near flash. Probably a similar thing happened with Progress. Could the potential upgrade of Progress and downgrade of Evolution just be from Nic's experience on them and personal feeling of the grades? He did Evolution incredibly quickly, and seemed to find Progress harder, so it seems reasonable that he might have thought the grades were the wrong way round. If that's the case, I don't know the circumstances by which his feelings re the grades became wrote.
Ted, a few posts before you mentioned a culture of downgrading. As an extremely peripheral participant on Peak lime in the 90s I remember that culture well - it was pretty much expected that everything would be downgraded.
...Details of Jerry's ascent are in High Magazine's excellent Rock Notes report from 1995...
@Remus - There should be a massive 'Route name history' database.. that gives an explanation of the routename history.. Its such a massive and colourful component of climbing history. We were pontificating over the "Bream in Black" name at cheedale embankment the other day.. bit of digging and of course its a Gary Gibson Stranglers reference - there were nicknamed the 'Men in Black'
...Can't even remember where i learned that now!
Details of 'that anagram' are in High Magazine's excellent Rock Notes report from '1992'
Excellent stuff! I miss the days when news was reported by the mags not by the athletes themselves on their instas...
Strapadictomy took me years, even when I knew it was meant to be funny