[Nibile]

When I have done things semi-regularly, I have regularly obtained poor results.

[petejh]

I should make clear that any perceived 'doomandglooming' is entirely piss-taking.

I'm minded to think that out of all the various physical and psychological mechanisms that might contribute to someone in their 30s/40s/50s finding climbing / weights to feel harder this year compared to 5 or 10 years ago, 'molecular ageing' is a long way down the list of most likely mechanisms. Impossible to prove against though, and it's always good to have another arrow in the excuse quiver. 

Or what Duncan said.

[Fiend]

I should make clear that any perceived 'doomandglooming' is entirely piss-taking.

I'm minded to think that out of all the various physical and psychological mechanisms that might contribute to someone in their 30s/40s/50s finding climbing / weights to feel harder this year compared to 5 or 10 years ago, 'molecular ageing' is a long way down the list of most likely mechanisms. Impossible to prove against though, and it's always good to have another arrow in the excuse quiver. 

Or what Duncan said.

Literally the second fucking line in my first post 

I've noticed an accelerated decline in my strength over the last year - worryingly more than I'd expect.

I don't know all the mechanisms. I just know what actually happened to me. If there are alternate explanations for "steady gentle decline - major drop in mid 40s - steady gentle decline" then maybe they will be useful to know about (yes, I know "mental health problems" and "quarry cleaning fatigue" have been covered but the former doesn't have a clear cut correspondence nor explain the fluctuation in declining, and the latter has been resolved).

As for excuses, the net effect is the opposite. There's a _possible_ explanation for both a major drop AND for no future major drops occurring for quite a long time. That is a strong motivation to keep what I'm doing, i.e. trying as hard as I can to reduce the intermediate gentle decline in that quite a long time.

Or what I said to Duncan.

When I have done things semi-regularly, I have regularly obtained poor results.

Also in my first post:

My previous experience is: If I go to the gym sporadically, but maintain a good level of activity with climbing days out, indoor walls, and other stuff, I can get back into gym lifts pretty quickly - I don't progress nor get near PBs without more regularity, but I regain previous norms well with just a bit more regularity.

And my current experience is, the semi-regularity has got me to hold steady(-ish) at the new low level. In the context that is a good result not a poor result.

Also in terms of regularity, if it's a choice between 3 gym sessions and 1 wall session a week, or 3 wall sessions and 1 gym session a week - I'm going to choose the latter. Too much gym regularity would lead to fatigue for climbing and possible bulking up, as well as missing on the pleasure and social benefits on the wall regularity. So I have to get the balance right for me. Which does include going to the gym - and aiming to do it more over this winter (possibly could be persuaded for a 2/2 balance...).

[Fiend]

I told you to get your T tested ages ago you knob :D

I listened to Wellsy (and Mischa and Fultonious and whomever), and got my T tested.

21.1. Perfectly normal within the margins of 8 - 29.

Welllllll. That's another avenue closed off then. RIP Fiend ever regaining any strength / power / fitness or ever being able to try hard again.

Still, off to the gym later.... 

[spidermonkey09]

How old are you Matt? I don't know whats normal in terms of ageing and can't be bothered to read the thread through, but age comes to us all- I can't do what I could when I was 21 physically, can't drink anymore, get injured more often etc etc.

I guess what I'm saying is is it possible your expectations for yourself are too high? I'm also always struck by the absence of total rest days in your logs - If I did as much as you I'd be in the ground!

Aiming to 'slow the decline' is the kind of target thats pretty much impossible to succeed at, because the decline is coming to all of us on a daily basis. Might be worth trying to enjoy being out rather than focus on strength metrics (easier said than done with this weather admittedly), or book yourself a holiday and pull on some jugs for a while- its amazing what that does for injuries in my experience.

Anyway I'm ill today so just thought I'd post but feel free to completely ignore, its meant conversationally rather than didactically!

[Will Hunt]

The inexorable fate of the ageing goal climber.

Matt, keep at it but make your expectations of yourself reasonable.

Moreover, find another way to achieve fulfillment in life that isn't related to climbing. It's not about giving up, it's about diversifying.

[jwi]

Moreover, find another way to achieve fulfillment in life that isn't related to climbing. It's not about giving up, it's about diversifying.

I find it more difficult to achieve fulfillment in life than to climb routes, tbh.

[Wellsy]

Fulfillment is found in Warhammer Fiend, mark my words

[GazM]

I very rarely reply to these threads, but as it's a common theme here goes.
Crikey Fiend, cut yourself some slack! Every week I read your power club posts and think jeez, no wonder he's feeling tired and weak! You rest once, maybe twice, a week and even on your active rest days seem to be climbing a fair bit. My body would be absolutely fucked if I did what you do!

I'm in no position to give advice as I don't know you and I'm not a medic/physio/psychologist, but wonder if you might benefit from taking your foot off the gas a bit and thinking more about quality than quantity?

[lagerstarfish]

Moreover, find another way to achieve fulfillment in life that isn't related to climbing. It's not about giving up, it's about diversifying.

What the Hunt boy said.

Have I mentioned surfskating?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dJN13j_pYMg

[MischaHY]

Some thoughts.

A mate of mine is 41 and regularly moans about being tired/dropping strength or whatever. Every winter he is forced to do less by crap weather meaning he spends more time on the board and rests more (whilst moaning a lot about not being out doing more). He will then miraculously get stronger, tick a couple of harder routes at the start of the season and then resume the usual program of loads of road biking and climbing long alpine routes within onsight limit whilst doing little to no hard board climbing or redpointing. His strength level inexplicably drops off and he spends the rest of the season wondering why he has been at the same level for more than a decade. Rinse and repeat for the last five years I've known him. Advice about why this might be is ignored because he doesn't like it.

I have no idea whether this sounds familiar (a desire for volume over intensity, reliance on high volume/regularity to help boost mental state, a tendency to avoid high quality top end strength work unless presented with no alternative) but if it does then the advice from the others above would be prudent.

Personally I like Wills advice.

[kelvin]

I told you to get your T tested ages ago you knob :D

I listened to Wellsy (and Mischa and Fultonious and whomever), and got my T tested.

21.1. Perfectly normal within the margins of 8 - 29.

Welllllll. That's another avenue closed off then. RIP Fiend ever regaining any strength / power / fitness or ever being able to try hard again.

Still, off to the gym later.... 

Are you doing the lymph stuff Matt? Eh?

It's literally the stuff athletes do to get the extra 1% during recovery. It's not just for sick bastards like me.

[lagerstarfish]

Also, Matthew

Quit whining
You're doing great
Everything will be ok

I think that's everything

[Johnny Brown]

He will then miraculously get stronger, tick a couple of harder routes at the start of the season and then resume the usual program of loads of road biking and climbing long alpine routes within onsight limit whilst doing little to no hard board climbing or redpointing

This sounds fucking great, where do I sign up?

[El Mocho]

He will then miraculously get stronger, tick a couple of harder routes at the start of the season and then resume the usual program of loads of road biking and climbing long alpine routes within onsight limit whilst doing little to no hard board climbing or redpointing

This sounds fucking great, where do I sign up?

See this bit:

...he spends more time on the board...

i.e. go to the fing wall in the winter, and don't just fuck about on the slabs. We've been telling you this for 20 years.

[Fiend]

If this topic degenerates into El Mocho slagging JB off for prancing around with the fairies rather than training hard, then I consider that job done 

[Hoseyb]

You wait, a mixture of the moaning on this thread and in power club means I'm joining power club next year!

Solidarity in the struggle...

Agree with more rest days and Warhammer though, have you thought about buying Cubase and becoming a GabbaGod?

[Johnny Brown]

i.e. go to the fing wall in the winter, and don't just fuck about on the slabs. We've been telling you this for 20 years.

Ok coach, I’ll do that as long as you promise to deliver the summer bit:

climbing long alpine routes within onsight limit whilst doing little to no hard board climbing or redpointing

[El Mocho]

I've got even less qualifications to be a life coach than a climbing coach. I could make you physically able to climb long alpine routes below your onsight max but I can't move those routes to within 20 mins of Sheffield.

[Johnny Brown]

Bah, you can stick your training then!

[lagerstarfish]

have you thought about buying Cubase and becoming a GabbaGod?

I can see this working if we can sort a creative zoom group for gabba production. Obviously I will need some better headphones and will be trying to skew the gabba towards frenchcore, but yeah, it could work 

[Fiend]

can't be bothered to read the thread through

This is a common theme! I do cover quite a lot of stuff in my replies, some of which then get ignored and remain unaddressed!

I can't do what I could when I was 21 physically, can't drink anymore, get injured more often etc etc.

General it's less about that I could do many years ago, and more about what I could do many months ago. Also, a steady increase in injury-susceptibility and steady decline in energy levels have happened within my expected parameters. The Big Drop has been less explicable.

I'm also always struck by the absence of total rest days in your logs - If I did as much as you I'd be in the ground!

Rest days are only allowed for people with low BMIs and working veins! Or, less bitterly, there's a couple of things here: Lifetime experience is that my body doesn't do well with total rest days, it starts shutting down and slowing down very rapidly (I also find total rest days quite unrestful - see a previous post about a DMaccy video). HOWEVER on advice of this thread I have started including more total rest days - I don't think that has made anything worse at least.. Secondly I record any activity remotely related to climbing / training / conditioning etc. Quite a lot of the time those actitivies are at a low enough level to not be fatiguing etc, and quite a lot of the time I'm alternating activities to allow different limbs to rest. Oh and I sleep a lot.

Aiming to 'slow the decline' is the kind of target thats pretty much impossible to succeed at, because the decline is coming to all of us on a daily basis.

I disagree entirely. "Slowing the decline" is exactly that. It is accepting that my body is declining (albeit I am still perturbed by the Big Drop a couple of years ago), and working towards, well, slowing that decline. Not stopping it. Not regaining. Not progressing. Declining but at a slower rate. I'll take being 3% weaker in a years time over 5% - and I am putting the effort in towards that.

Incidentally, I have lots of peers who are trying to progress at my age and older, albeit not only in pure strength ways. Peer 1 is anticipating getting stronger and climbing harder trad. Peer 2 is training more and working towards his hardest ever bloque. Peer 3 (+10 years) is aiming for his best trad grade in coming years. Peer 4 (+10 years) has also just started doing some of his best trad. Oh and there's all the bollox about Gresh and Lexicon but that just boils down to extreme dieting.

Might be worth trying to enjoy being out rather than focus on strength metrics (easier said than done with this weather admittedly), or book yourself a holiday and pull on some jugs for a while- its amazing what that does for injuries in my experience.

I would bloody love to be out in the sun, somewhere interesting (not Costa Blanca), pulling on jugs sharp grey crimps. Just waiting for an invite....

[Fiend]

A mate of mine is 41 and regularly moans about being tired/dropping strength or whatever. Every winter he is forced to do less by crap weather meaning he spends more time on the board and rests more (whilst moaning a lot about not being out doing more). He will then miraculously get stronger, tick a couple of harder routes at the start of the season

Kids, huh. I would go back on the board more - I'm waiting to recover from the usual injuries.

and then resume the usual program of loads of road biking and climbing long alpine routes

Thankfully both physically impossible and inherently appalling to me! Obviously I fritter away the main climbing season getting weak placing nests of cams in choss, but I do try to keep up with general recruitment with regular indoor sessions and redpointing (in previous years).

he has been at the same level for more than a decade

#lifegoals #bucketlist

I have no idea whether this sounds familiar (a desire for volume over intensity, reliance on high volume/regularity to help boost mental state, a tendency to avoid high quality top end strength work unless presented with no alternative)

Absolutely correct. There's a few things though:

1. Top end strength work = broken Fiend. Every time, without fail. This might be a physical issue or a tactical issue (me fucking it up) or both.

2. Volume over intensity = helps me recover from injuries, maintains general body functionality and conditioning (also been specifically recommended to me by Kettle and Reeve).

3. Boost mental state - yes this is an issue. Unfortunately climbing / indoor climbing / gym is very important for my generally fragile mental health. So there is a big clash of interest between "doing something involving and pleasurable enough to stay sane" and "doing crushingly boring methodical rigid training that I hate my way through to more effectively slow the decline". If I had DMaccy-style robotic ultra-discipline then things might be different... I will fully admit I am a weak-willed human who does not put nearly enough effort into conditioning / prehab / rehab / specifically focused training etc etc. Junk metres in climbing?? Often me. But I constantly try to get the balance right.

[Fiend]

Every week I read your power club posts and think jeez, no wonder he's feeling tired and weak! You rest once, maybe twice, a week and even on your active rest days seem to be climbing a fair bit. My body would be absolutely fucked if I did what you do!

I'm in no position to give advice as I don't know you and I'm not a medic/physio/psychologist, but wonder if you might benefit from taking your foot off the gas a bit and thinking more about quality than quantity?

Kinda see my reply to Mischa and spidermonkey above. Most of my outdoor climbing this year, apart from a few welsh / lakes bouldering days in spring, involves stuff that is almost no effort. I do think I tend to highlight when I've had big / tiring / intense sessions?? They're very rare. The last time was when I fucked my GE again I think.

Quality over quantity yes, again see above re: mental state. I'm trying to strike a pretty fine balance.

Are you doing the lymph stuff Matt? Eh?

It's literally the stuff athletes do to get the extra 1% during recovery. It's not just for sick bastards like me.

No of course not. File that under the conditioning / prehab / rehab / specifically focused training, oh and stretching, that I don't do enough of. PM me the links again and I can give it a try.

Agree with more rest days and Warhammer though, have you thought about buying Cubase and becoming a GabbaGod?

Based on a lot of experience Warhammer is fucking terrible for climbing, physical health, and sometimes mental health. Totally sedentary, very time-consuming, entirely introverted, bad posture etc etc.

More hillwalking, more running, more stretching, more shoulder mobility, more meditation, etc.....would be better than Warhammer.

[kelvin]

I sent you the basic lymphatic drainage exercise, just 3½ minutes to do it.
If anyone else is interested, it's below.

https://youtu.be/lT_wW5pNHa4?si=-IMXDeWs08hwFOF3