the shizzle > diet, training and injuries
Strength losses in mid 40s
Fiend:
Firstly any tall slim people with strong fingers who have been training on a board all their climbing life, the door is over there and please shut it firmly as it's bloody cold tonight, ta :P
Secondly:
--- Quote from: mrjonathanr on January 06, 2024, 10:07:44 am ---Fiend, I think the thread is really interesting but ironically, possibly directly less relevant to you than to many other posters?
--- End quote ---
I think it's quite relevant to me as it's my thread, about me, with my questions ;). But then again maybe the answers are less relevant - which would be business as usual - but the general theme seems to be one which can explain the situation?? Although, as much as I understand the "triple whammy" logic, I still have a gut instinct something else might be up.
--- Quote ---It sounds like the adaptations forced on you by injury, (more volume, lower intensity) would have served to keep your strength levels up 10 years ago but don’t work now. In other words, the biggest problem is healing injury. Deal with that and you might be free to climb in a way that keeps your power at a level you’d be perfectly happy with?
--- End quote ---
Yes but....part of the reason I posted this is about strength losses that aren't just climbing, and aren't as hampered by injury - this is why the weights issue highlighted it so much to me. I'd expect strength losses in lat pulldowns, bicep curls and maybe rows due to my persistent elbow problems. But bench and overhead press - yes they could be impacted by my impinged right shoulder, BUT my left shoulder feels just as weak, sometimes more so, without any injury. Deadlifts - yes I've had a gracillis tweak, but whilst this was very apparent in hamstring curls, it was negligible in deadlifts. Generally the weights are an area where I've not injured myself doing it, can measure a variety of lifts to avoid current injuries, am not hampered by my own weight, and I've been consistently able to get back into until this last year - hence the decline is more striking.
--- Quote ---The only difference age has imposed on you is that you’d have got away with inefficient training as a youth, now you have to do the ‘proper’ way. And that means fixing injuries.
--- End quote ---
Well, yes, talking about climbing specifically, that does seem to be the thing (and something I would consider as The Thing in general IF it was affecting my weights benchmarking too). I am trying a lot harder to get the balance right of enjoying my climbing (and other activities) which is enjoyable, and continually looking after my current injuries, which is not enjoyable (and sometimes quite detrimental to my mental, or even, physical health, and YES I know that being perma-injured is also very detrimental, my brain might be wonky but it's not entirely stupid). Generally the proper way is an anathema to my piss-poor motivation but yes I'm trying to be more receptive to the bits I can be receptive too (e.g. rest a bit more sensibly and don't be tempted to go to freezing cold board walls that I'm unfamiliar with and would struggle to ease into).
Thirdly, this thread, the responses, and the concepts, are still swirling around in my head. Some of those swirls are stuff like "I really am fucked strength wise, this is it". Some of the swirls are exactly the same as that but suffixed with "...but maybe I can try to slow the decline a bit by being a bit more tactical about what I do" (not that I am uninjured enough to contemplate anything remotely approaching "training" in the foreseeable future). Some of them are being more aware of junk metres, both in climbing volume and also in metres of grot excavated / de-ferned - I am starting to think more about getting the balance right between "this activity could calm the voices a bit" and "this activity could also keep fatiguing me and pushing my further from climbing capability". I'm not quite at the stage for "this other activity is boring as fuck, really repetitive, I'd rather motivate myself to lick the base of Wilton clean with my tongue.....but if I do it all the fucking time then it might proof me against injury x,y,z"...which is my other personal weakness ofc.
mrjonathanr:
You’ve obviously got a range of injuries which inhibit what you can do and how you can do it, and that must be appallingly frustrating. Navigating through to a broadly uninjured state must be very difficult.
For me it was elbow woes, compounded by some bad luck and it took lay off, tiny incremental approach to loading, plenty of shoulder strengthening and seeing the light about consistency and intensity- but it resolved, eventually.
What I was getting at (hopefully without coming across as snotty) was that a lot of the thread responses were about how to handle ageing. For sure it increasingly affects us all, but I wouldn’t be too fatalistic about this at your age. I think you are old enough to have to work round this now, but too young for that to be THE deciding factor.
I see some regret for not developing more strength when it was easier to do so, but lId look at how much untapped potential that gives you, once you have resolved some current difficulties.
Maybe get some health tests from the GP to check in on overall level of health?
Fiend:
Thanks once again MrJR :smartass:
--- Quote ---You’ve obviously got a range of injuries which inhibit what you can do and how you can do it, and that must be appallingly frustrating. Navigating through to a broadly uninjured state must be very difficult.
--- End quote ---
For the purposes of this thread, not really, as the issue I'm concerned about is strength losses that are not injury related (nor weight related). Although I do appreciate your sympathy as injuries have definited my lack of climbing physical capability in the last 3-4 years.
--- Quote ---For me it was elbow woes, compounded by some bad luck and it took lay off, tiny incremental approach to loading, plenty of shoulder strengthening and seeing the light about consistency and intensity- but it resolved, eventually.
--- End quote ---
Well, yes, going back to climbing strengths instead, this is definitely an important area, and other posters have highlighted publicly and in PMs that injury management is crucial as one gets older. I take your point that I too need to focus on shoulder strengthening (as well as letting my TE recover). I did Arnold Presses at the gym the other day...and need to do a hell of a lot more of that sort of stuff.
--- Quote ---What I was getting at (hopefully without coming across as snotty) was that a lot of the thread responses were about how to handle ageing. For sure it increasingly affects us all, but I wouldn’t be too fatalistic about this at your age. I think you are old enough to have to work round this now, but too young for that to be THE deciding factor.
--- End quote ---
(Not snotty at all ;) ). This is true, those were the responses, but my initial question wasn't specifically about age, it was a general "WTF is going on??" (in strength measurements that aren't hampered by injury / weight). People have replied about more age-related factors that I had considered, and that does make sense to me, but I wasn't necessarily expecting age to be THE deciding factor (although personally I think the DVTs and weight make my effective age a bit older...). Either way, the general consensus of being more sensible and careful seems a good one.
--- Quote ---I see some regret for not developing more strength when it was easier to do so, but lId look at how much untapped potential that gives you, once you have resolved some current difficulties.
--- End quote ---
You are very optimistic!! I am not aiming to develop more strength, I am not aiming to maintain strength nor stop the decline, I am only aiming to SLOW the decline. Which is still something to strive for. And the same principles of sense and care apply to that.
Incidentally I think with the weights, I didn't try hard to gain more strength when it was easier to do so (unlike climbing where I've been trying hard for 20 years or so), but when I did start trying hard 6-8 years ago, I did see some GAINZ (now all lost).
--- Quote ---Maybe get some health tests from the GP to check in on overall level of health?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
Fiend:
--- Quote from: Fiend on January 03, 2024, 10:20:20 pm ---Jamie G: Good point and I was going to mention that as it was something I considered, and I'm aware there can be a correlation. I personally don't feel my correlation is strong enough: Firstly I got to my strongest with lifting around 2018 when I had some increased depression (from post-norovirus nausea bouts). Secondly my mental health is marginally better and more stable than it was last autumn / winter, even if the strength is lower. Thirdly, it seems to be a very physiological thing - I don't feel I like motivation or commitment or effort at the gym (and definitely not at the wall). I feel good to try hard, and then the muscles just don't do as much as they could/should/have. Not ruling it out but I'm not sure TBH.
--- End quote ---
Okay so just watched DMaccy's latest, eloquent but fairly unrevelatory video about rest days. One thing that did come out was stressors affecting recovery, including mental health, and this got me thinking about the long term picture.
As per my reply to Jamie G above, I haven't found any "nearby" correlation between mental health issues and pure physical performance (in fact the latter has often been a reliable retreat from the former!), but maybe in the longer term, more prolonged mental health issues could affect my recovery and strength maintenance over time. E.g. the accumulation of regular depressive "rest" days where although I've felt strong in surrounding events, the physiological effects of the depression have been nibbling away at recovery for the long term.
Not that I have any enlightened protocol from that possibility. I am in general taking more care with rest days though.
JamieG:
One definite positive is you are engaging with the struggle and being open minded about how to improve both mental and physical health. Hope you are seeing some improvements. Definitely not easy!
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