[mark]

Just returned from Burbage West. Managed to get to the juggy break on WSS twice but both times I failed to top out. Doesn't feel possible for me to go from the big sloper above the jugs straight to the good high sidepull. I believe that's the usual method but it feels too powerful locking the sloper that low, or even getting high enough on it to pop to the sidepull. By the time I've tarted around reaching up with different hands with feet in various places I'm knackered.

So, are there any other options or do I just have to grim in and pull harder?

[dave]

heres what i did:

get jug break left hand
then right hand on the good hold just up and right of the jug (makes the next move over.
then go over with left for the sloper/flatty
then put right foot high in break
then match with right/rock up on to your right foot, then get the layaway.slight undercut in the groove like jerry in the real thing, bring left foot up to the jugs then reach the top.

real bummer eh on not beign able to top it out! first time i got there i fucked the topout up, but luckily managed it next go, which was a releif!!!!!!!

best of luck.

[Jim]

I wouldn't like to fall off from up there

[Dolly]

Why do you want to top out ?

[Ru]

Umm, to get the tick?

[Fiend]

Umm, because it completes a stunning line?

[BoulderHog]

If you want an E tick, top it out, if you want a boulder tick, jump off at the jug, when the hard climbing ends and the piss top out begins (but scary). If anyone disagrees with this, then come along to Almscliff and you can top out demon wall roof, or pebble wall, or stu's roof, otherwise no tick. Not to mention anything on limestone, Rubicon isn't very high, no tick unless you top out The Press. Seriously though, the top out for WSS is just a formality, do it when you want, but you get the 7B+ tick for getting to the jug.

[Jim]

I have to agree with you there mr boulderhog, but if I ever get to the jug I personally won't be taking the tick until I've topped it out

[a dense loner]

i see someone else says it n suddenly he's talking sense meanwhile i get rebuked at will :shock:

[Bubba]

Just how hard is the top section?

[dave]

top section is about 5c.

If you want an E tick, top it out, if you want a boulder tick, jump off at the jug, when the hard climbing ends and the piss top out begins (but scary). If anyone disagrees with this, then come along to Almscliff and you can top out demon wall roof, or pebble wall, or stu's roof, otherwise no tick. Not to mention anything on limestone, Rubicon isn't very high, no tick unless you top out The Press. Seriously though, the top out for WSS is just a formality, do it when you want, but you get the 7B+ tick for getting to the jug.

i disagree - for a start its different to demon wall roof etc as the top part of WSS is not access by any recorded indirect route. also WSS is named and graded for an ascent of the full wall, the obvious line from bottom to top. and for a start is just plain not as good to jump off at the break. if you can find me a class *** line on perfect rock that tops out above the press then i will concede your point!

the topout is not only a formality, proved by the fact that if it was then this thread would have never come into being!

[BoulderHog]

It's a formality for those who like scary grit routes, for boulderers it's more of a route and touches on one of the reasons many people become boulderers - they don't like going up too high with a potential leg breaking fall (for some people risking your immediate health and problem climbing potential doesn't seem worth it. Strange eh?). So that's why this is being discussed, because some people effectively have bigger balls than others. I actually half agree with you, I claimed the tick when I got to the jug, no guilt there, but to fully satisfy myself the top out was required. That's a personal thing though, I would still credit someone with the V9 if they jumped off at the jug, but possibly give them more respect if they toped it out, as I would give someone who topped out DWR or Stu's Roof more respect - (if they topped out pebble wall with no gear I would just think they were nuts).

[dave]

It's a formality for those who like scary grit routes

i don't know - i think the original poster is more then qualified in that department!

[BoulderHog]

For those who want a visual breakdown of the sequence for the top, there are videos of the Moon doing WSS every which way but loose. Actually I think he does it loose as well:

http://www.benmoon.co.uk/html/peak.html

[Fiend]

Mr Hog, I must protest...

If anyone disagrees with this, then come along to Almscliff and you can top out demon wall roof, or pebble wall, or stu's roof, otherwise no tick

Demon Wall Roof and Stu's Roof finish at a very obvious break, above which there is an E1 but not a natural continuation to the roof line.

Pebble Wall finishes at a bivi ledge, and whilst it "historically" forms part of a route - described as a two pitch route no less - it is two very seperate bits of climbing.

(Your limestone examples are just taking the piss).

Seriously though, the top out for WSS is just a formality, do it when you want, but you get the 7B+ tick for getting to the jug.

The point is, it's not about the tick, it's about the line. The whole of WSS is a stunning line of both subtlety and distinctiveness. To go just halfway up this continuous line is missing the point of that bit of rock (this is quite different to your examples).

And these days one should really have enough pads and spotters to make it okay...


(BTW, I will never be able to climb WSS (Edit: Well okay maybe in theory, but it's so far distant I neither desire it nor think about), but I want to see the line treated with the respect it deserves).

[dave]

BTW, I will never be able to climb WSS......

thats not the spirit young man.

[mark]

T'interweb, eh? I post an innocent request for beta and it spawns all sorts of shenanigans. A few replies…

heres what i did:

get jug break left hand
then right hand on the good hold just up and right of the jug (makes the next move over.
then go over with left for the sloper/flatty
then put right foot high in break
then match with right/rock up on to your right foot, then get the layaway.slight undercut in the groove like jerry in the real thing, bring left foot up to the jugs then reach the top.

real bummer eh on not beign able to top it out! first time i got there i fucked the topout up, but luckily managed it next go, which was a releif!!!!!!!

best of luck.

Ta. That's what I thought. My hopes that I could tart my way up on gastons and avoid pulling are in flames.

Why do you want to top out ?

Louis Armstrong: “If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer.”

It's for various reasons: that's the way John Allen did it; I'm sick of people mouthing on that you haven't done it if you only go to the jug; it looks like good, exciting climbing; I want my WSS medal to be untarnished by doubt; and, of course, I want to plant a flag on the summit.

 

It's a formality for those who like scary grit routes, for boulderers it's more of a route and touches on one of the reasons many people become boulderers - they don't like going up too high with a potential leg breaking fall (for some people risking your immediate health and problem climbing potential doesn't seem worth it. Strange eh?). So that's why this is being discussed, because some people effectively have bigger balls than others. I actually half agree with you, I claimed the tick when I got to the jug, no guilt there, but to fully satisfy myself the top out was required. That's a personal thing though, I would still credit someone with the V9 if they jumped off at the jug, but possibly give them more respect if they toped it out, as I would give someone who topped out DWR or Stu's Roof more respect - (if they topped out pebble wall with no gear I would just think they were nuts).

Certainly doesn't feel a formality to me. Each time I've made it to the jug has been after a good dozen attempts at the problem and I'm getting tired by then. The flatty is disappointingly un-flat and the sidepull seems a long reach above. I've done enough scary grit routes that I know I'm no cissy: the size of my stones is not the issue. That's not to say that I look forward to falling off from high up, hence the desire to ensure I'm not missing out on some cunning that reduces the chances of a plunge.

For those who want a visual breakdown of the sequence for the top, there are videos of the Moon doing WSS every which way but loose. Actually I think he does it loose as well:

http://www.benmoon.co.uk/html/peak.html

So basically I should just one-arm the flatty. Always worth getting beta from Weak Ben!

Joking aside, thanks for pointing the vids out. Guess I just need to be more determined and yard on the hold.

It's a formality for those who like scary grit routes

i don't know - i think the original poster is more then qualified in that department!

Aw, shucks!

 

And these days one should really have enough pads and spotters to make it okay...

Good chance it'll be just me and the sheep out early one morning. My mat starts to look small and thin and my knees start to ache when I get high up these days!

[Dolly]

I think the nub of it is the distinction between bouldering and soloing short routes. I have done the latter, but I don't like it that much any more, I get scared.
For me, WSS is a brilliant boulder problem and I'm happy with that. If I was to make it a short route I'd be too scared to enjoy it.
I think the old adage applies. Do what you want, but be honest when you recount your exploits.

[a dense loner]

exactly

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Not wanting to start any rumours or owt  :wink: but...at that distance it could be anyone?! Seems a bit suss to me.

[glow=red] Which sponsored hero is now too busy being famous to actually climb anything? and which UKBer is being paid to play him in his vid's? Hint: he's wearing a black wig, can cruise WSS and is in the market for a new motor...coincidence? [/glow][apologies to PopBitch]

[grimer]

Hi Mark, I thought the top was substantially easier than the bottom bit, standard 5c as Dave said. The holds are slopey but friendly, and the moves every bit as good. Just keep repeating to yopurself "I've done West Side, I've done West Side" as you shake your way up and you should be okay. That's my top tip for a tip top top out.

[mark]

The deed was done this morning. You may have heard the shouts!

And I can now categorically state that all the “It's a formality”, “It's only 5c” and such-like is vicious mischief-making.

Three times I got to the jug and headed on to the top.

First attempt I followed the beta given earlier in the thread and shown in the Ben Moon vids: reached up left hand to the flatty, right foot in the break to the right, right hand up to share, rock up and stretch for the sidepull. And was a good 6 inches short. Readjusted on the flatty, tried again but no better so off I pitched.

Second attempt I did the same but got right hand in the flake a few inches beneath the good sidepull. Used that to udge a bit higher and slapped for the good bit but didn't reach it and went spiralling back to the deck.

I was trying hard, pulling and going for it and it wasn't happening. It is not at all an easy move. If you reckon it is then you're a fair bit stronger than me or you have much longer arms and can reach the decent bit of the flake from lower than I can manage.

But there's good news for us puny types. Third go and I had a cunning plan. From the jug I reached up right-handed for the flatty, stepped left foot into the break beneath the jug, gastoned the lower flake with my left hand, stepped right foot up beside the jug and reached up to the sidepull with my right hand. Stepped up with quaking knees and crawled over the top. That's definitely easier than locking the flatty. Requires a bit of faith in the left-hand gaston as it feels that you'll ping off sideways if it gives but it's not a bad hold that you're laying off and it avoids all the basic locking malarkey.

Can I have my medal now, please?

[Fiend]

Well done! For that effort there is only one selection of medals that is good enough...

[grimer]

And if you think that feels good, Mark, just wait for the first chance that you get to say, "It's only 5c, mate."

[grimer]

oh yeah, and bone effort, of course.

[Dolly]

Nice one mate.
Will you spot me if I ever work up enough courage to have a go ?

[mark]

Blimey! Got a long way to go before I have as many medals as Fiend's mate.

Nice one mate.
Will you spot me if I ever work up enough courage to have a go ?

Absolutely. I'll put the cattleprod attachment on my brush-on-a-stick and force you to keep climbing higher.

[dave]

good effort!!!

on a negative point, you've just done probably the best peice of climbing anywhere, so its all downhill now..... :wink:

[Bubba]

Nice one Mark - first Deliverance, and now WSS - what's next?!

[grimer]

Chip Shop Brawl, of course.

[Bonjoy]

Top effort Mark!
I'm taking day off on thurs to go out, maybe i'll give WSS another blast, see if I can't join you on the podium.

[tomtom]

Wrong thread I know - but I couldnt find a WSS beta thread (just this one on the top out and another more random one)...

So... AAAAAARGGGGHHH... I seem to be unable to maintain balance to pop my left hand out to the shitty mono crimpette thing near the start..
(the move is @ 14 seconds on this)

So I've started all sorts of odd outside edge of foot fagottry thats nearly coming off to pretty much avoid that move - coming accrosss to the shitfest non crimp wank hold of crapness a bit later on when I'm higher. But I cant help but feel that I'm making life much harder for myself... and it would be much easier if I could just balance out that first or second move.

I've tried all sorts of different foot combo's, leaning in different ways, weight distribution etc.. but I just barn door away from it as I'm trying to snatch a finger into its non-existentness.. am I missing something dead simple -or is it just my morph? (I am tall and lanky..)

Grr...

[nai]

Dobbin's lank method may work for you:



Also seen folk layaway up the flake to the third sidepull using an interim 2.5 for their left then taking the crimp once established up there.

[dave]

Can't you just reach the crimp from the floor FFS? Or are you on percy's regendary sitter?

[tomtom]

aha.. I'd forgotton about the Dobbin Method(tm)..
I tried that last year (or earlier this) and was no-where near, but I'm stronger now, and was holding stuff in on there that I wasnt before - so I may re-visit this. My LF was sticking today when it wasnt before..

My (non completed but in head) sequence is some combo of this and the regular way, where I use the outside of left and out right RF (though not so high as Dobbin)  to yard accross to the crimp, then sort feet out and progres upwards in the standard combinations (as yet untried!)...

Can't you just reach the crimp from the floor FFS? Or are you on percy's regendary sitter?

I can.. but believe it or not I'm too stretched out to do anything with it other than be trapped in a LA style stop and search pose.

[Johnny Brown]

AAAAAARGGGGHHH... I seem to be unable to maintain balance to pop my left hand out to the shitty mono crimpette thing near the start..

How tall are you? The 'Dobbin' method above is only for the taller gent. Alternatively, try more pinching the right sidepull with your middle finger in the very back corner, wrist & arm more or less vertical below it, then get your hips in close. Or the midget method - smash a toehook in that big flake out left and wave at the crowds mid-move.  All of these will benefit from colder weather than the present.

[tomtom]

AAAAAARGGGGHHH... I seem to be unable to maintain balance to pop my left hand out to the shitty mono crimpette thing near the start..

How tall are you? The 'Dobbin' method above is only for the taller gent. Alternatively, try more pinching the right sidepull with your middle finger in the very back corner, wrist & arm more or less vertical below it, then get your hips in close. Or the midget method - smash a toehook in that big flake out left and wave at the crowds mid-move.  All of these will benefit from colder weather than the present.

6'3"...

[Duma]

I'm 5' 9" and the toehook is fine, not just for midgets. Still can't get the break tho...

[Johnny Brown]

I meant the toehook is only really the easy option if you're too short for the others.

If you're 6'3" I cannot understand why you're doing this move at all. Are you a T-Rex? Just pull on with the crimp.

[Jim]

at 6'3" you should be able to pull straight on with the crimp and go for the 2nd side pull. dobbins method is not lanky? I can used to be able to do it like that no problem. for the normal of stature who cannot reach the crimp off the deck, the move at 14 secs in that video is done by a very subtle body position that takes a while to find, but when you do you can get it nearly every go.

[nai]

the move at 14 secs in that video is done by a very subtle body position that takes a while to find, but when you do you can get it nearly every go.

very true and as ever all about feet, think Tom struggled to pull in on his left toe with his long legs all bunched up. 

The handholds on the route are obvious, you just have to work out the order to use them in and most importantly where - and how - to place your feet, this seems to differ slightly for everybody and can take a while to work out.  For me it was a process of eliminating lots of possibilities until I was left with the most likely solution.  One of the most enjoyable processes I have been through.

[Johnny Brown]

dobbins method is not lanky?

No, but it definitely gets easier the taller you are. It could do with a more appropriate name quicksmart though.

[Jim]

ben-side-boy-band?

[tomtom]

An update.. I had a (slightly tired) session on this on Thursday, with Nai offering advice.. it was warm (not ideal) but some slight progress was made.

The most promising advances came on the regular method, and getting all my weight leftwards at the start and really pulling in on the left toe (feels really odd) and I managed to hold the barn door in a couple of times (improved each time). Then general warmth and goppiness stopped further progress....

[highrepute]

in my, limited, experience everyone seems to have their own sequence that works best for this problem. Just keep experimenting.

Also, wait for it so cool down a bit, 6 to 10 degrees should be ideal. Until then practice balancy moves on vertical walls.

[tomtom]

An update.. I had a (slightly tired) session on this on Thursday, with Nai offering advice.. it was warm (not ideal) but some slight progress was made.

The most promising advances came on the regular method, and getting all my weight leftwards at the start and really pulling in on the left toe (feels really odd) and I managed to hold the barn door in a couple of times (improved each time). Then general warmth and goppiness stopped further progress....

Got the move today (3 times out of 20!)... didnt get any further though was surprised to hold it...

Onwards and upwards..

[dobbin]

It should be noted that all methods on west side are actually tm Bishton or long as far as I know. The 'dobbin' method was handed down to me by the ignition technician saltbeef, and probably to him from Huffy and to him from well, who knows - but the point is that it wasnt something I made up.

If its not wooden, linear and very basic, it's extremely unlikely I had anything to do with inventing the sequence.

If you want a really hard way to do a problem that only I can do - I'm your man.