[remus]

Who are the other v15 females other than Ashima? (Remus mentioned there were 4? Are 3 others questionable? I know that Jana from Czech gave an FA 8B+/C that linked into the second half of Terranova, but not sure on others.

As per usual it depends a bit on how you count, but I'd count 3 women as having climbed 8C: Ashima, Katrina Lehman and Mishka Ishi. Orianne reclimbed Satan i Helvete (Bas) after a hold broke and suggested 8C, but as I understand it subsequent ascents have said 8B+ (maybe with better beta?), and Oriane agreed on reflection. Pretty arbitrary, but I only count 'whole' grades on CH, so if someone gives something a slash I record it as the lower grade, so on CH Jana Švecová's Nova is in at 8B+.

https://climbing-history.org/list/18/strongest-female-boulderers
https://climbing-history.org/climb/2268/satan-i-helvete-(bas)

[yetix]

Thanks Remus for the clarification.

[User deactivated.]

12 ascents at 9A by 9 men by my count, with at least another 41 men who have climbed 8C+.

https://climbing-history.org/list/17/strongest-male-boulderers

I wonder how those number change if alphane gets downgraded 

It looks like we'd only lose Aidan Roberts from that list of 9 men (and probably not for long).

[wasbeen]

A woman in the top 50 of any sport is pretty unusual.

The other - very niche - example that springs to mind is Nicky Spinks & Jasmin Paris in ultra fellrunning

Even more niche is speedy cycling where the world record (184mph) is held by Denise Mueller-Korenek



Which seems unusual for a power based sport. Although, judging from that video. I expect logistics and cojones also play a significant role.

[Bradders]

...
10x male 9A ascents (I think that's right) by 7 people

And if you look beneath that, the number of men who've climbed 8C+ is massive...

12 ascents at 9A by 9 men by my count, with at least another 41 men who have climbed 8C+.

https://climbing-history.org/list/17/strongest-male-boulderers

Thanks Remus, I'd forgotten Timonov and Woods 

I was also counting Oriane as the 4th female 8Cer, didn't realise it'd since been downgraded.

Interesting discussion.

I think it's the top performers that are relevant in the conversation about gender gap, not the breadth.

The fact that the hardest that the top achieving woman has climbed is only a grade different to the equivalent for a man, shows where each gender is in terms of what is physically possible, regardless of how often it has happened.

I kind of get where you're coming from on this but personally I'd say breadth is far more important.

Think of it like the gender pay gap; it matters not one jot if a single woman is paid 5% less than the highest paid man, and a handful are paid 5% less than her, if all women are paid 20% less on average than the average man. You could say the pay gap was 5%, but the 20% gap on average is much more significant.

And the same applies here, the gap at the absolute top is now small, but look beneath and it's still extremely wide. In fact, it might even be growing?

Also, in terms of what's "physically possible", from a pure difficulty perspective I think women are perfectly capable of climbing the same grade as men. The style they do it in may end up being different though based on morphological / physiological differences.

[lukeyboy]

Think of it like the gender pay gap; it matters not one jot if a single woman is paid 5% less than the highest paid man, and a handful are paid 5% less than her, if all women are paid 20% less on average than the average man. You could say the pay gap was 5%, but the 20% gap on average is much more significant.

And the same applies here, the gap at the absolute top is now small, but look beneath and it's still extremely wide. In fact, it might even be growing?

I would think of it as very different to the gender pay gap (though appreciate that might just be my interpretation of the question).

With the gender pay gap, you mainly want to see how the average woman compares to the average man, in which case I agree that breadth is more important than the handful of top performers.

With the the top level of male and female climbing, it is (IMO) the top performers that are most relevant - breadth will inform you on the average standard and other interesting things, but those are different questions.

Also, in terms of what's "physically possible", from a pure difficulty perspective I think women are perfectly capable of climbing the same grade as men. The style they do it in may end up being different though based on morphological / physiological differences.

I agree anecdotally, but without any evidence it's only really an opinion. Backing this up with some objective(ish) evidence, i.e. top male and female performances, adds a lot to this I think.

[crimpinainteasy]

 I predict that in the next ten  years top women will match the top men in certain styles i.e. techy, flexy, and small edges but a gender gap will remain in problems involving more basic, thuggy and dynamic moves (ie things like the big Island and power of now).

[Muenchener]

Interview with Katie

[Hoseyb]

Really enjoyed the interview, I'm sure it would resonate with many of the off piste boulderer explorers on here

[dave k]

Brooke and Shaun have repeated Box and proposed a downgrade to V15!