[Oldmanmatt]

I would imagine that this forum has a few people with quite good knowledge in this area and I’m finding that my new role gives me quite a bit of free time. Essentially I’m an executive director, I only work 8 months of the year and I get weekends off when I’m working too (even given my excessive/obsessive hobbies, I seem to have long lonely evenings and  many free hours at the weekend).
So, I’ve been toying with the idea of a remote Masters in Eng Management or similar.
 But an ex-forces employment charity just sent through details for a Non-executive Directors programme that leads to “ TQUK Level 6 Certificate in Strategic Planning and Leadership (RQF)” which I’d never heard of.
Does anyone have experience or knowledge of either TQUK or this/similar programmes?
Are they worth the time, effort or money (that one is cheap-ish at £2.5K).

TQUK seems to be OFQUAL recognised, but I’m not sure if that really means anything?

Actually, if anyone has any alternative suggestions for programmes or qualifications of that ilk I’d be interested to hear about them and probably others would too.

[dunnyg]

Im no expert, but a level 6 qualification is equivalent to a bachelors degree.

(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualification_types_in_the_United_Kingdom)

It is worth understanding what you want to get out of these kind of courses. E.g. will an MEng bump your pay up, or do you want to get some formal training in X/Y/Z, or do you just enjoy learning about a certain subject.

Once you work that out it might be easier to pick a suitable qualifcation/course.

Anec-data:
I know a couple of people who have done masters through the open university and enjoyed them. Also seen a lot of adverts for short courses at uni. In my field these are generally 3-4 month courses in climate change for CEOs etc.. Im not sure how useful they are though, and they are generally more expensive than a masters (!).

Some vaguely useful thoughts maybe...

[Moo]

All roads lead to rope access.

[CrimpyMcCrimpface]

I agree with Dunny when he says decide what you want out of it before beginning and it will help decide which form of study is best for you. Typically a masters with a HE provider will give you the academic overview of a subject with tools to critique it as a discipline, whereas a professional qualification should equip you with the practical skills to enact work at that level. It's easy to decide which of these is preferred, and narrow your options, once one can identify the desired outcome.

I'm currently studying for a CMI Level 7 Diploma in Strategic Management and Leadership with a view to later become a chartered manager. The main motivator for me was career progression and thus far everything I've gained has been of direct practical application and probably is one of the reasons for a recent promotion. Although the Level 7 is considered (according to NQF/RQF) on par with a masters, in effect its not exactly equivalent as there is no dissertation/research element. I.e. you'll see PGDip/PGcert listed at level 7 though neither require dissertation.

In terms of what the 'levels' mean in practice, I would describe it as the perspective from which you engage with the subject. I previously completed a Level 5 Award (apparently equivalent to HND/1st yr of degree) and found it to over simplify the topic. Perhaps it was too operational at a time when my role is becoming more strategic. Again a personal decision which would relate to your experience in the field and where you want to take this.

As you're an engineer you may want to check out the chartered bodies that offer engineering training. I imagine a lot of the subject covered in the level 6 you mentioned would be similar to the CMI content just adjusted for audience. Here you can check in fact. There is also FutureLearn which has hundreds of short online courses and even online masters and that can provide a good springboard. I did my level 5 CMI through this platform and I'm currently using ICS learn for my level 7.

Also, in my experience the cost relates to mode of delivery and not the subject matter covered. All of them which 'lead to' a qualification will cover the same syllabus, set by the awarding body, its just the method by which they do it will dictate what they charge. I.e. ICS is cheap because its all online.

Hope this is useful

[matt463]

message deleted

[andy popp]

You haven't mentioned this, and I doubt you're considering it (tho' you did mention a management Masters), but I wouldn't bother with an MBA, even if someone else is offering to pay for it (which I don't think they are).

[duncan]

Typically a masters with a HE provider will give you the academic overview of a subject with tools to critique it as a discipline, whereas a professional qualification should equip you with the practical skills to enact work at that level.

My healthcare background meant courses I was involved in had both theory overview and some practical skills. We'd have had a student revolt/no "customers" if they had been all theory!

As well as all the good advice above I'd attempt to speak with some former students. Similar-sounding courses can have very different content and quality of delivery which is not always evident from the blurb.

[Falling Down]

What do you want to do with it Matt? Is it to enhance qualifications for more or a wider variety of work opportunities? Personal interest? Both?

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, I’m almost entirely vocationally qualified.
It’s never held me back, but I always have an underlying “imposter” feeling.
As it happens, all three directors at the shipyard are similarly qualified, so perhaps it’s even more silly than I already think it is; however, I’m now sending my eldest off to Westminster Law school, No.2 has just been accepted to do four A levels (I dropped out of 6th to run away to sea), the Twinigans (Nos.3&4) are heading into year 10 with very high predictions and this old man feels a little inadequate.

I have several diplomas at level 6/NVQ 6 and a PgDip (DipMarSur), so realistically the only thing that will scratch my itch is the MSc.

I also just enjoy it.

It’s unlikely to harm my employment prospects, either…

[Falling Down]

Congrats on the kids doing their thing, that’s great.  Your answer sort of confirmed my suspicion that you don’t need to get any more qualifications to do the work you would like to do which is great. With that in mind then, you can do what sparks your curiosity and interest (and like you say it won’t do your employment prospects any harm).

Go for the MSc then. It’ll be intellectually demanding enough to stretch you and satisfy any imposter syndrome that’s lurking around.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, I’m back with another question.

I still haven’t sorted my own shit out, life and stuff does get in the way.

However, No.3 has suddenly awoken, after many years of “I want to be a Policeman like Granddad”, he was selected for (and to my surprise enthusiastically embraced) a residential “Maths camp” over the summer. Hosted by Exeter Mathematics School.
Anyway, it seems this cult have got their claws into him.
He’s year 11, did his mocks just before half term and got results this week, with a clean sweep of 8s.
Since the summer, his avowed ambition is to study physics and Astrophysics in particular. Last night he dropped the bombshell that he wants to apply to Exeter Mathematics School to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics.
Now, I thought I’d quashed that idea. There are very good 6th forms in Torquay (such as Torquay Boys Grammar), he’s already in the Spires College Grammar stream and Exeter is an hour away on the train and would be eye watering in transport cost etc. The college offers boarding, but with four children, this is not an option for us, financially.
Then it turns out he’s been saving from his weekend/holiday job and has almost enough for a season ticket, has been planning this since long before the Maths camp, is busy looking for a better job (having turned 16 last week) and thinks he has enough time to cobble together the second year’s transport cost before it’s needed etc etc.
Last night I told him to justify his plans and reminded him this morning, got this back:


Truthfully, I’m fucking impressed.

Someone on here must be a physicist or similar? Whilst there’s a small matter of entrance exams, actually being accepted and actually getting the GCSE grades etc, I suspect he’s got a strong shot.
But, is it worth it?

It will be arduous, with the travelling etc and I have doubts about the rarified nature of “exclusive” and “selective” education establishments; along the lines of the psychological impact of being (perhaps) at the bottom of your class, even if it’s actually the “bottom of the top”.

He hasn’t expressed any Uni choices yet, but, I suspect, I can guess, he has Oxbridge day dreams.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_Mathematics_School

[SamT]

Do you know Jon Wilson (SW climber, been around for years, helped write some of the 90's guidebooks to the area I believe - he lives in Exeter and has a son now at Oxford (2nd year) doing Maths..  He was also a teacher.

Not sure he's on UKb, but might be worth taking to if you can find him.

[JamieG]

Proviso: I know nothing about the Exeter Mathematics School. However, I do work in higher education and if your kid is this keen and sorted at 16 then he is way ahead of the majority of our undergraduates, even by their final year. Making PowerPoints and citing sources, that's awesome. Sounds like they will do great.

Also, maths/physics is a fantastic topic to study even if they don't end up working in academia long term. The number of careers that a solid maths/physics degree (from any decent institution) opens up is really high. People with really solid maths skills are always in short supply! :-)

[spidermonkey09]

Proviso: I know nothing about the Exeter Mathematics School. However, I do work in higher education and if your kid is this keen and sorted at 16 then he is way ahead of the majority of our undergraduates, even by their final year. Making PowerPoints and citing sources, that's awesome. Sounds like they will do great.

Also, maths/physics is a fantastic topic to study even if they don't end up working in academia long term. The number of careers that a solid maths/physics degree (from any decent institution) opens up is really high. People with really solid maths skills are always in short supply! :-)

Most postgraduates as well, as well as most people in their 30s 

[tk421a]

I did Oxbridge Engineering, having done Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry.
PM me if you'd like to discuss Oxbridge applications / anything else.

[JamieG]

Actually yeah you are right. I should probably add myself to list of people that have no idea what they are doing!

Maybe it's idealistic, but I always think that it counts for an enormous amount to be studying what you are passionate about rather than studying something just for a job. Most courses/jobs etc have rubbish bits and at least being keen on the topic helps you get through those parts. Ultimately you are going to be doing it almost everyday so it's worth being interested in it in the first place.

[Johnny Brown]

Stu Littlefair is a Professor of Astrophysics I think, Sheffield via Exeter?.

I have doubts about the rarified nature of “exclusive” and “selective” education establishments; along the lines of the psychological impact of being (perhaps) at the bottom of your class, even if it’s actually the “bottom of the top”.

I had a mostly positive experience of this. Class sizes are smaller, teachers typically more engaged/ less over worked/ more accountable; distracting classmates less of a problem. Be careful this isn't a chip on your shoulder from your childhood about privileged kids/ swots etc. He doesn't sound like he'd be a the bottom either. I did have one teacher who taught the top of the class ( 4 genuinely exceptional kids from overseas who'd won national competitions the prize being sixth form at a top Uk private school) when I was at the bottom, coupled with some distraction from desk-mates meant I didn't get the grade I should have. But that was the exception.

Also, maths/physics is a fantastic topic to study even if they don't end up working in academia long term. The number of careers that a solid maths/physics degree (from any decent institution) opens up is really high. People with really solid maths skills are always in short supply! :-)

Second that. My higher-achieving friends mostly got head hunted/ groomed by banks before leaving uni, and ended up earning silly money in their early twenties. Some stuck with it, most left for more vocational careers, none were worrying about student loans or house deposits.

[seankenny]

I have doubts about... being (perhaps) at the bottom of your class, even if it’s actually the “bottom of the top”.

He hasn’t expressed any Uni choices yet, but, I suspect, I can guess, he has Oxbridge day dreams.

I did maths, further maths and physics A-levels. That level of specialisation at 16 really shouldn't be allowed, but given that it is, it's a great combination for anyone who is keen on those subjects. Everyone who's doing further maths is pretty keen so it's probably always going to be a bit more intense, although I found it also very supportive.

About being "bottom of the top". Assuming intelligence is somewhat normally distributed, and that your kid is probably in the top one or two percent, it's worth remembering that that bit of the distribution contains a wide spectrum of ability from the normally reasonably intelligent right the way through to a Gauss or a von Neumann. Being in that kind of environment means meeting much smarter people that oneself is absolutely inevitable. If it doesn't happen at school then it will happen at university. If he's at all intrinsically driven - and it sounds like he is - then he will probably find it very cool, rather than distressing.

[abarro81]

Depends a lot what you're driven for! As someone driven for climbing notably more than physics I can strongly recommend being top of the class at an ok uni vs bottom of Oxbridge. Leaves much more time for climbing, partying, fun etc.

[Oldmanmatt]

Thanks all for your excellent advice and pms. He’s got a lot to weigh up and that power point is getting quite long. He’ll be fine. Cheers!