[Wellsy]

Does anyone here have any good experience in terms of training for a one armer? I fancy it, and I know it's not necessarily great for climbing but it'd be cool.

I can lock off on the right arm for like, 7 seconds and the left for about 3.5 max. My recent max pullup weight was 36kgs for 3 and 46 for 1 (I weigh about 77/78). What kind of training is best? Loads of weighted pullups? Any particular accessories? Anything to avoid? All input welcome

[Dingdong]

Wide grip pull-up 3RMs and 2 arm lockoff isometrics at 90 and 120 degree angles 30 second holds.

I did these on creatine so was heavier and then cycled out creatine, lost the water weight and found I could do a clean, non-kipping one arm pull-up. YMMV.

[Wellsy]

Wide grip weighted huh? Interesting. I've never done those now I think of it. How frequently? Twice a week?

Wide grip would mean reducing weight but honestly that might not be a bad thing.

[User deactivated.]

I'd disagree slightly with the wide grip pull up. I think it's potentially more useful for transfer to climbing, but if you're trying to do a 1 armer you want to maximise force production and you'll do that best with a natural (narrower) grip. Do weighted pull ups twice a week as your primary exercise for building strength somewhere in the 2-5 rep range, alongside pulley assisted 1 armers as skill practice - do these at around RPE 8 for singles and get plenty of sets in, spread across the week.

[Dingdong]

Tbf i had already done almost 2 years of solid normal grip weighted pull-ups so I think going wide just helped me develop slightly different muscles but the strength was mostly already there.

I think the technique to doing one armers is somewhat underrated too. All about positioning your body at the right angle below the bar and twisting into it to activate the correct muscles.

[PeteHukb]

I'm surprised you're not pretty close with those stats, you're quite similar to me (probably a little stronger on 2 arms but a fraction heavier) and I can do a one-armer from a slightly bent arm with shoulder engaged. Going from a totally straight one-armed hang is still a bit beyond me but I'm not particularly interested in specifically training for that.

If you can't be bothered with a pulley system for weight off just do a one-armed hang with minimal assistance from the other arm eg one finger or pinching the bar or something. Make sure you're in the one-armer position - stand with feet parallel to the bar, grab bar and try to get your (right/left) cheek to your (right/left) palm.

One-armed lock-and-lowers are also a favourite tool in terms of progression. Two arms up, lock off and lower on one arm as slowly as you can.

Recruitment also makes a big difference, do a couple with minimal assistance and then try one with no assistance.

[jwi]

I'm surprised you're not pretty close with those stats

I must say that I think OP is pretty far out from a strict one arm. But probably quite close to be able to do what I like to call a ‘climbers one-arm’, i.e. a one-arm with a jumpstart.

Most people need to get to about 170-180% bw pull-up to be able to do a one-arm from deadhang

[Paul B]

Seriously, do something else with your time OP. Most of the folk I know who used to bang these out (properly) avoid them like the plague these days.

[Dingdong]

I'm surprised you're not pretty close with those stats

I’d say that’s about right, I’m around 179% atm and can one arm clean on my left but not my right arm.

I also think Paul is right, tbh it’s no more than a party trick which can injure you quite easily haha

I must say that I think OP is pretty far out from a strict one arm. But probably quite close to be able to do what I like to call a ‘climbers one-arm’, i.e. a one-arm with a jumpstart.

Most people need to get to about 170-180% bw pull-up to be able to do a one-arm from deadhang

[Wellsy]

Last year I could do one on my right arm strict from the bottom up to about 90 degrees while I my knee was fucked and I was doing loads of weighted pullups, I think I was a little lighter and pulling a little less but I did do the little start yes

I reckon being able to do them is a skill and rather specific and not that useful to climbing but I'd like to try anyway

[Probes]

Eccentric/negatives works/ed for me. Done at first with body weight then with a little extra. Dropping at approximate speed you'd be going up at. If the negative can't be controlled then shouldn't really be trying.
edit... this is on one arm, and may be with a finger of other hand place somewhere to help control positioning
edit.. then we got a bachar ladder and the world was our oyster forever after

[PeteHukb]

Seriously, do something else with your time OP. Most of the folk I know who used to bang these out (properly) avoid them like the plague these days.

Despite my previous post I do kinda agree with this. Best to regard one-armers (whether strict or not) as a fun by-product of safer, structured weighted pull-up training rather than an end worth pursuing in itself.

[mrjonathanr]

edit.. then we got a bachar ladder and the world was our oyster forever after

Do you feel like a ladder helped you much then Probes?

[Probes]

Massively! I remember at first it was a bit 'sketchy' in terms of form, but being young, soon built enough strength & stability to use it controlled. Very similar movement to a one armer, and the trailing hand just giving assistance/a bump up into a one armer... soon the trailing hand did very little. I got best gains from reversing. It got a bad rep hey for injuries, but i never suffered.
I also made a ladder from chain with two different rung distances, one was similar to 147 and the other about 1 4.5 8.. not sure how now, but it was spot on. No bounce either. Up the 147 and down the wider spacing I seem to remember doing a lot. Come to think now, I left it hidden at Cliffs Barn down the back of the wall, I wouldn't be surprised if its still there 20 years on
 

[mrjonathanr]

Cheers Probes. I have a ladder, but siting it is the issue. It’s set up for Pex, but it’s quite a drive from where I live now and the tree I used to secure the base has been cut down.

The old bolt at Minus Ten used by Basher, Pollitt etc has deteriorated but might be worth redoing. kc kindly offered to lend me a drill. I think I might take him up on that.

For injuries, I always believed coming down with poor control was the killer. So long as you’re in control it should be ok.

[User deactivated.]

Wellsy acknowledged that training for a one armer isn't going to make him climb any better, but zoomed out from the world of climbing, it's a valid goal to have, and likely to be less injurious than actual climbing too. 

[Wellsy]

Yeah it's a strength goal. Having a powerlifting total of 400kgs wouldn't help climbing much either but I'm aiming for that this year too.

I did 3x3 pullups at 30kgs added weight yesterday and cruised em, so reckon I'm ready for a nice new block. I think my weekly sessions will be;

3x3 weighted pullups at perhaps -4kgs below my 3RM i.e RPE 7-8. 3x3 assisted one armers at RPE 7-8. And then 3x8 unweighted wide grip pullups and 3x12 low rows for general pulling strength. I think that's a good mix of beneficial for climbing and pushing towards my one armer goal.

[Dingdong]

Yeah it's a strength goal. Having a powerlifting total of 400kgs wouldn't help climbing much either but I'm aiming for that this year too.

I did 3x3 pullups at 30kgs added weight yesterday and cruised em, so reckon I'm ready for a nice new block. I think my weekly sessions will be;

3x3 weighted pullups at perhaps -4kgs below my 3RM i.e RPE 7-8. 3x3 assisted one armers at RPE 7-8. And then 3x8 unweighted wide grip pullups and 3x12 low rows for general pulling strength. I think that's a good mix of beneficial for climbing and pushing towards my one armer goal.

I think that'll

Looks like a good set of protocols mate, as always, keep it consistent and you’ll no doubt see those gains 

[mrjonathanr]

Wellsy, if I can get a ladder set up for Stoney you’re always welcome to join me. If you could avoid burning me off too blatantly that would be appreciated

[Probes]

I don't really get the it's just a strength goal, no use for climbing thing.. I've had numerous occasions, especially trad and on ice, dragging 2 ropes and big rack, when having that strength in one arm has got me out of trouble.

[jwi]

Everyone needs to get stronger of course, but unless you are super-strong and can do multiple one-armers without technique (chapeau), training for a 1 rep one-armer is just a waste of time that could be better spent on 1) increase general strength and 2) practice skills with higher transfer to climbing.

Strength is usually best trained in the 60-90% of 1rm range. If one-armers are in this range, more power to you.

[Dingdong]

There’s also loads of climbs on peak lime for example where you smash to a lip hold and it’s way easier to basically once arm campus the moves over the lip than to try and front lever into polished feet under the roof!

[36chambers]

this is a well timed thread, thanks Wellsy.

I've have to reduced my amount of climbing recently to try and give my ongoing finger injuries a chance. So to try and maintain some psyche I've been training towards doing a one armer. Mainly because it's nice to have a simple goal and also, I suppose, because my deep lock of strength has always been abysmal.   

My first block of training was just progressive weighted pull ups and this block I've been mainly doing one arm shoulder shrugs followed by assisted one armers (the other hand holding a theraband looped over the bar). I'm still miles off, so I've got nothing to add really other than solidarity to the cause

[mr chaz]

My ability to do a JWI style climber's one armer magically appeared after doing essentially nothing but CWP hangs, campus boarding and outdoor climbing for a year. Give me a buzz in a year's time and I'll let you know how to fuck it all up again.

[spidermonkey09]

Ditto, my ability to do them or not do them seems to come and go with the wind.

[Paul B]

There’s also loads of climbs on peak lime for example where you smash to a lip hold and it’s way easier to basically once arm campus the moves over the lip than to try and front lever into polished feet under the roof!

Care to name them?

[abarro81]

Ditto, my ability to do them or not do them seems to come and go with the wind.

Mine* increases when I do lots of trying them and/or when I'm light and decreases when I don't do them and/or I'm heavy. But I don't know if I'm allowed to say that nowadays 

*referring to a "climber's one-armer", I've never done a real one

[36chambers]

Ditto, my ability to do them or not do them seems to come and go with the wind.

when you weigh as much as a packet of crisps I imagine the wind does wonders for your one armers

[Bradders]

There’s also loads of climbs on peak lime for example where you smash to a lip hold and it’s way easier to basically once arm campus the moves over the lip than to try and front lever into polished feet under the roof!

Care to name them?

I suspect what he really means is if one is already strong enough to do a one armer then that is 'easier' beta (or less complex / quicker), albeit it is in no way the physically easiest way to do the move.

You'll be thinking of Chiggers, Greenwood Tree and Madding Crowd at Lees right Carlos? Because I can do the ends of those no problem but can't touch a one armer; logically if the one armer beta were easier I wouldn't be able to do it at all. I think this is often the blind alley strength training can lead people down; just because you are strong enough to do it a certain way doesn't make it the easiest way.

Not to say that arm strength isn't really helpful in lots of boulder problems.

[Paul B]

I feel I now know Johnny Brown's pain from approaching 20 years ago when he tried to have similar discussions with my younger self  .

[mrjonathanr]

One day years ago I tried Bored of the Lies and kept falling off at the top. We detoured via the Tor on the way home and I comfortably did a (climber’s) one armer off the Weed Killer jug. I’m stronger on the rock now but can’t do a one armer.

My takeaway: one armers don’t have much to do with route climbing ability. Maybe a bit more relevant to boulders?

[Dingdong]

There’s also loads of climbs on peak lime for example where you smash to a lip hold and it’s way easier to basically once arm campus the moves over the lip than to try and front lever into polished feet under the roof!

Care to name them?

I suspect what he really means is if one is already strong enough to do a one armer then that is 'easier' beta (or less complex / quicker), albeit it is in no way the physically easiest way to do the move.

You'll be thinking of Chiggers, Greenwood Tree and Madding Crowd at Lees right Carlos? Because I can do the ends of those no problem but can't touch a one armer; logically if the one armer beta were easier I wouldn't be able to do it at all. I think this is often the blind alley strength training can lead people down; just because you are strong enough to do it a certain way doesn't make it the easiest way.

Not to say that arm strength isn't really helpful in lots of boulder problems.

Yeah those are some of the ones I was thinking of, of course it’s all down to each persons individual strength so some people will find campusing the end easier than faffing about with low feet, especially if you’re shorter/lighter - this probably leads onto: training what suits your body type and strengths

[Wellsy]

Again, I don't want to do them cos they're great for climbing, I just want to do them because I want to do them.

I do think all this training for em will probably not be bad for climbing though!

[Dingdong]

Again, I don't want to do them cos they're great for climbing, I just want to do them because I want to do them.

I do think all this training for em will probably not be bad for climbing though!

Personally I think it’s great to have non-climbing strength goals anyways. As you say, they will help towards climbing anyways plus they’ll keep you psyched to keep doing S&C!

Go get ‘em wellsey 

[Paul B]

I do think all this training for em will probably not be bad for climbing though!

If you don't have the strength to overpower a move, you look toward finding an efficient way of doing it. Once you have that strength, you'll rely on it when you shouldn't.

[User deactivated.]

I do think all this training for em will probably not be bad for climbing though!

If you don't have the strength to overpower a move, you look toward finding an efficient way of doing it. Once you have that strength, you'll rely on it when you shouldn't.

I disagree. If a strong way of doing a move is easier for an individual, then I think this is usually the best technique for that person on that move (in the context of Wellsy being a boulderer) and should be relied upon. Other techniques will be learnt on the majority of problems where strength alone won't cut it.

I've never had to do a one armer on a boulder problem, but being able to do them means I've never hit the limit of my pulling strength while climbing either. I'd always rather be strong than not.

[Wellsy]

I do think all this training for em will probably not be bad for climbing though!

If you don't have the strength to overpower a move, you look toward finding an efficient way of doing it. Once you have that strength, you'll rely on it when you shouldn't.

Yeah I'm pretty shit at climbing relative to my strength, but that's okay. I get plenty done and I like strength training.

I could write a defence of it from a bouldering perspective (along Liamhutch89's lines) if I wanted but I realistically think its just as much of a reasonable goal to want to do a one armer as it is to squat 130+ kgs this year. Ultimately I wanna do some hard boulders and I'm not gonna get there by not getting strong as fuck. I also want to do one armers cos they're cool. And they happen to overlap somewhat, which is nice

[Paul B]

Other techniques will be learnt on the majority of problems where strength alone won't cut it.

My point is it's harder to do so because you lose the subtlety when you're used to/able to overpower things. This comes from fairly bitter experience and having to spend a vast amount of time going back to doing copious volume on much easier things (and if you want to go all look at me, I could bosh multiple 1-armers out pretty comfortably whilst simultaneously being a technical dunce). I had a hallelujah moment on a route at Cheedale Cornice where I burnt off several technically more gifted/skilled climbers using a foot sequence.

Yeah I'm pretty shit at climbing relative to my strength, but that's okay. I get plenty done and I like strength training.

My prediction is you'll hit a glass ceiling and get bored.

I could write a defence of it from a bouldering perspective (along Liamhutch89's lines) if I wanted but I realistically think its just as much of a reasonable goal to want to do a one armer as it is to squat 130+ kgs this year. Ultimately I wanna do some hard boulders and I'm not gonna get there by not getting strong as fuck. I also want to do one armers cos they're cool. And they happen to overlap somewhat, which is nice

If it makes you happy then so be it. However, if your ultimate goal is to be a better climber then I'd strongly recommend getting technically good and efficient before adding what sounds like a greater focus on strength.

[Wellsy]

Getting technically good and efficient is easier said than done. I spend a lot of time trying to do that, which is how I know that its easier said than done, and I also like strength training, and I'm going to learn to do one armers too, cos I want to. And my prediction is I will do them, in fact

[Droyd]

"If the only tool you have is a one-armer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a campus move."

[Wellsy]

Again, I know it's not the best for climbing I just want to do it as a S&C goal

[iwasmexican]

personally I got to being able to one armer just campus boarding and campusing boulders- much more fun and specific to climbing than just pulling

if it was good enough for ty its good enough for me