[crzylgs]

I predominantly boulder outdoors (not highballs!) but do some occasional sport and have got a week in South Wales coming up where I'd like to mostly sport climb with my partner and thought it was about time to update my helmet. It's quite tricky for me to get to any gyms/shops that have much of a selection to try on so I'll probably have to take a punt on the fitting and order online.

I'm learning towards the Petzl Meteor. This seems to get well reviewed and will serve as a decent all round helmet and in my opinion beats out the Black Diamond Vision on 'looks / style' points - which is obviously super important when choosing a helmet 

The Black Diamond Vision was another I've seen that seems to fill a very similar use case and price point to the Meteor.

Was half tempted by the Petzl Sirocco - but honestly shaving off those ~50g traded vs less durability doesn't seem worth for my infrequent and far from cutting edge use.


Anyone with any strong views or personal recommendations between those I've picked out or want to throw a new contender into the mix?

[Paul B]

There's another thread on here somewhere where one of the primary concerns seemed to be how you'd transport the helmet to the crag and how easily some of the lightweight offerings could be damaged in the bottom of a rucksack for instance.

[slab_happy]

FWIW, I have the original version of the Sirocco (the hideous orange one which someone dubbed Ronald McPenis), which I bought in 2013, and I haven't managed to damage it in my rucksack yet.

I do vaguely try to wedge it into the top of the rucksack rather than the bottom, but that's as much delicacy as it gets.

It looks like it's made of polystyrene and will crumble if you look at it funny, but that is not the case.

... and now I've Googled how often you need to replace your helmet and oh thank god I can finally change to something less hideous. But I will very likely just go for the current Sirocco, because the old one has served me well.

[Paul B]

Black Diamond did some research that might mean you can keep Ronald a bit longer if you were that way inclined (no significant loss of strength for helmets stored correctly?).

[Duncan Disorderly]

I can't recomend the Black Diamond Vapour enough!

I abstained from wearing a lid for years until seeing someone lob off a sport route I'd just done, catch a foot, flip and smack her head - the quantity of blood pissing from her head was pretty eye opening (she was fine after a trip to A&E btw)...

I found everything either looked like a penis (Sirocco) , bulbous buoy (Vision) or sat too far off the top of my head (all the rest) that I knew I'd just hit it continually... Tried every reasonably priced one in every shop I went in for ages until I finally bit the bullet and tried the Vapour (the expensive option!)... Was a revelation, felt like a cap. Now feels wierd to climb routes without it!

They've just released a new (even more expensive) version so you might find a deal on the previous model (the one I have)...

Looking now it seems that Absolute Snow have em for £79 if S/M fits yer head and you like red...

https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/black-diamond-vapor-alpine-rock-climbing-helmet?v=253129&fc=GBP/?keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiIOmBhDjARIsAP6YhSUi7JkyiKoNSu8U3LOwG2SIZTAwDJdVu6jAuIhKx2zgP2_30nX5g_UaAqCsEALw_wcB

[James Malloch]

I use the black Sirocco. Don’t notice it in and it looks alright.

Never had issues with it in my bag but also put it in the bag last so its always on top.

Get something you like or you wont use it.

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/petzl-sirocco-helmet-climbing-helmet/?aid=b8e36a7faf3429a98495956b14cc718e&pid=10004&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiIOmBhDjARIsAP6YhSWYTLnmQerUNgU3ZWNVCubKAjOJlZUwS2fnW0NpbEFALNxhYRbjDAIaAoI1EALw_wcB&wt_mc=uk.pla.google_uk.18012299660..

[crzylgs]

There's another thread on here somewhere where one of the primary concerns seemed to be how you'd transport the helmet to the crag and how easily some of the lightweight offerings could be damaged in the bottom of a rucksack for instance.

This is nicely sums up my concerns.

FWIW, I have the original version of the Sirocco (the hideous orange one which someone dubbed Ronald McPenis), which I bought in 2013, and I haven't managed to damage it in my rucksack yet.

That's good to know! However, doesn't help me make my mind up as I'm even more torn now!

I can't recomend the Black Diamond Vapour enough!

Looking now it seems that Absolute Snow have em for £79 if S/M fits yer head and you like red...

https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/black-diamond-vapor-alpine-rock-climbing-helmet?v=253129&fc=GBP/?keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiIOmBhDjARIsAP6YhSUi7JkyiKoNSu8U3LOwG2SIZTAwDJdVu6jAuIhKx2zgP2_30nX5g_UaAqCsEALw_wcB

I had seen the Vapour top a few test list but at its full price was a tad out of my budget. That's a much more tempting price. On the link provided by Duncan there are 4 colour options:

Red / Ice Blue - these both seem to have a thin shell/coating over the foam looking bit.

Octane / Black - these appear to only have the shell on top, then no coating on sides?

But they are the same price and same model?

[Duncan Disorderly]

The ones with polystyreen sides are the latest models and are megabucks...

[SamT]

I've had a vapour for some years now, and the top is looking quite dented now.  Only ever put it in the top of the rucksack, but it does seem quite susceptible to denting.  (Its one with the shell all over.)

 Needed another helment the family on hols so ended up with a Vision which has a much kinder price tag.  Can't really tell the difference to be honest. (Less shell on the Vision)

[Johnny Brown]

I’ve had both the meteor and a black (i.e. mk ii) scirocco for years now. The meteor is more comfortable and stable on my head. The big benefit of the scirocco is not so much the weight (which has been shaved too far imo, just put the meteor cradle in) but the durability. The scirocco foam is not polystyrene , and is more or less indestructible, you can put in the bottom of your sac, sit on it for lunch, generally abuse it. I still use both depending on mood, ideally I’d have a meteor made of scirocco foam.

[cheque]

I’ve got a helmet holder thing that attaches your helmet to the outside of your rucksack. Stops it getting battered in there and frees up space.

[SamT]

I’ve got a helmet holder thing that attaches your helmet to the outside of your rucksack. Stops it getting battered in there and frees up space.

Ditto, a "Helmet Bra" but I find it a bit of a pain to clip on so rarely use it (usually enough space within but good to have for big days with lots of gear/clothes).

[galpinos]

FWIW, I have the original version of the Sirocco

It looks like it's made of polystyrene and will crumble if you look at it funny, but that is not the case.

FYI, the OG Sirocco is all EPP (Expanded Polypropylene), the new one is EPP with an EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) cap.

The Meteor is all EPS. I have a Meteor (I think I am on my third incarnation). Super comfy, barely notice it, have yet to break one (apart from reversing over one, which it did not survive but was a lot more intact than I would have thought!)

EPP is more expensive,  more durable and allows a lighter helmet design. Doesn’t cope as well with the vertical “rock fall” test hence the skull cap of a different material or the high top design of the OG Sirocco.

[SA Chris]

Just get a Grivel Stealth and do Kryten impressions.

[jwi]

Another vote for Petzl Sirocco. I have one and it is the first helmet I've had that I could consider using when sport climbing.

[Muenchener]

Anyone with any strong views or personal recommendations between those I've picked out or want to throw a new contender into the mix?

Am a huge fan of the Mammut Wallrider. I've had mine for a few years now - most comfortable helmet I've ever had, and it's still in perfect condition. Always lives on the outside or top of the rucksack when I'm not wearing it, but I haven't had to really baby it.

Bought the MIPS version for my son just in case it might actually be in some way safer. Just as comfortable, and I don't notice the few extra grams - no idea if it's really worth the extra cost.

[Will Hunt]

The decision was made for me by my comically small head. The Meteor looks least mushroom-like. That's your answer if you are similarly afflicted.

[SA Chris]

  / blessed

[spidermonkey09]

Another vote for Petzl Sirocco. I have one and it is the first helmet I've had that I could consider using when sport climbing.

Do you wear it sport climbing jwi or just multi pitching? I used to wear one all the time but stopped at some point and now never do. I am aware this is stupid but I'm kind of out of the habit now.

[jwi]

just when doing multipitch. I do not use a helmet when doing single pitch routes on solid rock and have never seen any reason to.

[Muenchener]

I do not use a helmet when doing single pitch routes on solid rock and have never seen any reason to.

My best friend fell clipping the second bolt at around seven metres in the Frankenjura with the first bolt at about four metres. Landed on my shoulder with his body pretty much horizontal, and gave the rock a good smack with his helmet while doing so.

[Paul B]

Bought the MIPS version for my son just in case it might actually be in some way safer. Just as comfortable, and I don't notice the few extra grams - no idea if it's really worth the extra cost.

There are a few articles on MIPS cycling helmets and in that context the technology (including the other names such as SPIN) looks to work. My wife had a crash where she ended up going over her bars at 20-25mph. Apart from the scrapes on the (white) helmet I thought she'd miraculously not impacted it at all. On closer inspection a week later it was totally cracked through internally which having taken a mallet to it this week before putting it in the bin was quite shocking at how much force that actually required!

Incidentally, do climbing brands offer cheaper replacements if you spanner one? It takes the sting off replacing the helmet when you get a generous discount on its replacement.

[SamT]

Had a look at the MIPS version of the BD Vision while in the shop the other day.  My thought was it looked a bit 'sweaty' if that makes sense. big yellow film that lines the inside of the helmet. 

I totally get MIPS on bike helmets, as I can completly visulise the mechanism for rotary injury to the neck as you slide on your head down the road.

First time I'd seem MIPS on a climbing helmet, and my instant reation was 'eh?'  as I imagine the vast majority climbing related head injuries to be fairly simply impacts.. either from swinging and smacking ones head against a rock, or falling stuff.

I guess its just an added layer, but as mentioned, thougth it looked a bit like it took away from the ventilation side of things, which if you're winter climbing, may not be an issue, but mines used generally for trad climbing/multipitch stuff, which is more often than not, on the warmer side, rather then the cold side.

[cheque]

I do not use a helmet when doing single pitch routes on solid rock and have never seen any reason to.

My best friend fell clipping the second bolt at around seven metres in the Frankenjura with the first bolt at about four metres. Landed on my shoulder with his body pretty much horizontal, and gave the rock a good smack with his helmet while doing so.

TobyD had a similar and absolutely horrific helmetless accident. I’ve worn a helmet for every route ever since.

[Muenchener]

Had a look at the MIPS version of the BD Vision while in the shop the other day.  My thought was it looked a bit 'sweaty' if that makes sense. big yellow film that lines the inside of the helmet. 

I haven't noticed any difference in ventilation/sweatiness between MIPS and non-MIPS Mammut Wallrider.

[slab_happy]

Get something you like or you wont use it.

Yeah, the goal is to not have any excuses not to wear it!

That was my original rationale for the Sirocco; it's so light I might as well put it on (for anything except offwidths where it'll get stuck). Also I'm the only person at the crag who doesn't have to look at it.

If picking something you like more (even if it's for a "superficial" reason like thinking it looks cooler) makes you more likely to wear it, then it's worth it.

[Duncan Disorderly]

Get something you like or you wont use it.

If picking something you like more (even if it's for a "superficial" reason like thinking it looks cooler) makes you more likely to wear it, then it's worth it.

Good advice - no point spending less on something that just sits in your bag cos you feel like a knob in it...

[duncan]

I have the MIPS Wallrider and and a Mk 2 Sirocco. I was fairly happy with the Sirocco but had forgotten it on a trip and got the Wallrider as a quick replacement. Both are good but I prefer the Wallrider. It's slightly heavier but fits me marginally better (good to try a variety of brands if you can) and the simple buckle works better for me. I found the Sirocco's magnetic buckle awkward and a nuisance to keep clean which comes undone at inopportune moments if you don't. The MIPS Wallrider is usually spendy but was not more expensive than the standard version at the time so gave it a try. I don't know about the technology but can confirm it is not sweatier than a regular helmet.

The Decathlon offerings are typically less than half the price of their Petzl/BD/Mammut equivalents and look like they'll do the job equally well. The Sprint is their take on the Sirocco/Wallrider: polypropylene with a reinforced apex.

Very good points about choosing a lid with the fewest barriers to wearing, which might include looking suave. Hands up who bought their first helmet* after seeing Neil Bentley styling his way up Equilibrium in an original Meteor!


*Technically incorrect, I had an orange Joe Brown fiberglass number for a few months when I started in the 1970s. Weighted about 5kg, totally uncool and I never wore it. Youth of today don't know how lucky they are etc. etc.

[Muenchener]

I had the "lightweight" Joe Brown helmet - just the fiberglass shell without the several inches of polystyrene. I actually did wear it for a couple of years in the early 80s before deciding helmets were uncool.

[SA Chris]

I had one of the original Edelrid plastic pisspots. I carefully edited the EDELRID logo on the front so it said SCARED. Very few people noticed, but it amused those who did.

[Will Hunt]

Crazy to think how much harder I'd redpoint if I didn't wear a helmet that weighed 0.3% of my bodyweight (before considering rope drag, clothes, harness, whether I've had a pre-climb piss/shit).


Edit: might as well complete the sermon.

NSFW  same shit I've written on here 100 times before:

I've seen people that would describe themselves as experienced and good sport climbers (>8a RPers) fall off stuff with the rope behind their leg. If they didn't manage to whip their leg over the rope mid fall (it was a long fall) their head would have exploded as it hit the wall below them. Someone stood at the bottom of a trade route at Kilnsey got brained by falling rock and was stretchered off the crag. Kilnsey in general is a choss pit.
When you consider that you don't even have to be unlucky to get a brain injury from a knock to the head, and that brain injuries can/will completely fuck you up, maybe even kill you in the sense that your body survives but your personality is completely and irreversibly changed, I maintain that it is an extraordinary act of self delusion to not wear a helmet while sport climbing/belaying.

[crzylgs]

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice and constructive input. I'll definitely be upgrading my helmet before the trip. I've got a couple weeks yet to get one ordered. As previously mentioned I don't have easy access to any climbing shops which stock any of the decent helmets that have come up in the discussion here. But I think I've got a fairly average shaped head so am confident to choose one online and go with it.

[Oldmanmatt]

Crazy to think how much harder I'd redpoint if I didn't wear a helmet that weighed 0.3% of my bodyweight (before considering rope drag, clothes, harness, whether I've had a pre-climb piss/shit).


Edit: might as well complete the sermon.

NSFW  same shit I've written on here 100 times before:

I've seen people that would describe themselves as experienced and good sport climbers (>8a RPers) fall off stuff with the rope behind their leg. If they didn't manage to whip their leg over the rope mid fall (it was a long fall) their head would have exploded as it hit the wall below them. Someone stood at the bottom of a trade route at Kilnsey got brained by falling rock and was stretchered off the crag. Kilnsey in general is a choss pit.
When you consider that you don't even have to be unlucky to get a brain injury from a knock to the head, and that brain injuries can/will completely fuck you up, maybe even kill you in the sense that your body survives but your personality is completely and irreversibly changed, I maintain that it is an extraordinary act of self delusion to not wear a helmet while sport climbing/belaying.

A short convo with TobyD of this parish, should convince even the most stubborn of the “it’s too heavy” crowd of their error…

[ali k]

I do not use a helmet when doing single pitch routes on solid rock and have never seen any reason to.

Totally agree with Will on this. I’ve witnessed a guy flip upside down and split his head open high up on a steep Margalef 8b. The solidity of the rock was irrelevant in that fall, it was just misfortune. I’ve personally flipped upside down after pinging off unexpectedly by the 2nd bolt and if I wasn’t wearing a helmet I’d be dead or badly brain damaged. The helmet was split in two and I had concussion for days after.

Personal choice obviously, but people seem to be good at convincing themselves that the biggest danger in sport climbing is of rocks falling from above.

[IanP]

Don't want to argue too much against the case for helmets - given how light they are now it feels there is a good argument for them, despite the fact that I don't bother.

However I don't feel hyperbole about risking life / brain damage is warranted either.  The fact is very few people die sport climbing (I can't think of any recent UK ones) and  serious accidents involving ground falls could involve many injuries where helmets are irrelevant.  Obviously Toby's accident was significant, but still rare enough to be noteworthy years later and (if my understanding is correct) while wearing a helmet probably would  have helped , stick clipping the first bolt would have helped even more, something I've been doing on that route for 20 years+.

Probably wearing a helmet would reduce my injury risk slightly while sport climbing but then again so might wearing one while walking home after a heavy night on the town (though that risk has been mitigated by getting old and boring).

[jwi]

A modern helmet weight basically nothing, but still bangs into the rock all the time while climbing.

On the positive side, I never fall badly at the second draw because I have preclipped the rope into whichever is the highest draw I can reach extended on my tippy toes with my 7 m long stick clip.

[IanP]

On the positive side, I never fall badly at the second draw because I have preclipped the rope into whichever is the highest draw I can reach extended on my tippy toes with my 7 m long stick clip.

Indeed , possibly the biggest safety move you make in sport climbing is using your stick clip.  I have no interest in hitting the ground while.sport climbing , helmet or no helmet, it's hard!

[jwi]

On the positive side, I never fall badly at the second draw because I have preclipped the rope into whichever is the highest draw I can reach extended on my tippy toes with my 7 m long stick clip.

Indeed , possibly the biggest safety move you make in sport climbing is using your stick clip.  I have no interest in hitting the ground while.sport climbing , helmet or no helmet, it's hard!

I don't bring it to the gym. I am too lazy for that. But when lead climbing in the gym, I usually climb the easiest route on the line to the second draw, clip, lower, and climb my chosen line. For exactly the same reason: I plan to never fall to the ground or challenge the belayer to keep me off the ground.

[Will Hunt]

If only Mina had thought to clipstick the draw above the Rainshadow crux before falling off 

Ian, all the examples I mentioned are from the last few years. To only count deaths ignores the long list of other grim stuff that can befall you.

I didn't mention the time we all watched a toddler nearly obliterated by the flake that detached from the Directissima area of Kilnsey and landed in three large sections around him, each with arm's length. The point is that if you spend enough time hanging around on or at the bottom of crags then you stand a good chance of getting hit. I'm reminded of the words of the IRA: "today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always."

[Oldmanmatt]

Don't want to argue too much against the case for helmets - given how light they are now it feels there is a good argument for them, despite the fact that I don't bother.

However I don't feel hyperbole about risking life / brain damage is warranted either.  The fact is very few people die sport climbing (I can't think of any recent UK ones) and  serious accidents involving ground falls could involve many injuries where helmets are irrelevant.  Obviously Toby's accident was significant, but still rare enough to be noteworthy years later and (if my understanding is correct) while wearing a helmet probably would  have helped , stick clipping the first bolt would have helped even more, something I've been doing on that route for 20 years+.

Probably wearing a helmet would reduce my injury risk slightly while sport climbing but then again so might wearing one while walking home after a heavy night on the town (though that risk has been mitigated by getting old and boring).

Ha ha ha…

Sorry, a few years ago I would have written exactly that.

(And the laugh was for the last sentence).

I “helped” in a very minor way with Toby’s rehab, though the day I pinged off the crux of Empire and had Toby’s head rammed up my arse, at speed, as physics proved it’s fucking point (again) rammed home the helmet thing once and for all with me.

(To be fair, it probably said more about setting up a better belay when the leader is ~86kg and the belayer is ~50kg and not being lazy. I’d been (failing to) making the clip when I pinged).

Also, and fair enough it’s not recent:

That’s me, in flight, from (irrc) five clips up, on a very steep route and I decked out, very painfully and kicked the belayer in the head, hard enough to leave him wobbly af. A little more slack and I’d have hit my head hard, because his head stopped my feet, if you know what I mean.

[IanP]

If only Mina had thought to clipstick the draw above the Rainshadow crux before falling off 

Ian, all the examples I mentioned are from the last few years. To only count deaths ignores the long list of other grim stuff that can befall you.

The.point I was making re deaths is re the common 'a helmet might save your life' trope.  When it comes to sport climbing it probably won't because its extremely rare to see fatalities even though the majority of people don't wear helmets. 

I'm aware that grim things can happen climbing some involve the head, lots involve arms,.leg, back etc.  I'm aware of Toby and Mina's accidents but nothing you're saying seems to disprove the point that's these are very rare events. 

As I say I'm not against helmets and can see some justification for wider use, but that doesn't mean that people that choose not too are in some way taking ridiculous unwarranted risks.  What they are doing is making a small percentage increase in their risk of injury relative to someone else who who climbs in the same way as them and wears a helmet.

[SA Chris]

No criticism on either side, but confirmation bias running strong through this thread.

[slab_happy]

Many years back, I got post-concussion syndrome for months after a relatively minor (non-climbing-related) bang on the head, which didn't even made me lose consciousness.

The medical verdict was that I have a "vulnerable brain" -- basically, the autism and depression and history of freak neurochemical reactions etc. mean that my brain's dealing with more than enough already, and consequently a very minor injury is enough to produce a disproportionate effect.

Now, clearly I have way more brain issues than the average person! And I do think wearing a helmet or not is an individual choice, and everyone's got their own contextual factors to take into account.

But my point is that accidents don't necessarily have to be huge or dramatic to fuck you up for a while. And post-concussion syndrome isn't "life-altering", but it is really unpleasant and I'd rather give it a miss.

[petejh]

Last winter I fell off at the 3rd bolt of a bolted mixed route and my crampon point went into my belayer's head. He wasn't wearing his helmet. The metal spike through the head seems not to have affected his personality at all...

[Oldmanmatt]

Last winter I fell off at the 3rd bolt of a bolted mixed route and my crampon point went into my belayer's head. He wasn't wearing his helmet. The metal spike through the head seems not to have affected his personality at all...

Yeah, mixed and ice? Helmet is a no brainer, or you end up with no brain.
The boss on the Joint Services MT Paget exped, slipped in the bergschrund during our retreat (‘92), bringing up the rear on a descending traverse. Crampon caught the rope and he swung head first into the crevasse wall. Probably a 25-30m swing. Left me carrying the can as 2i/c, recovering an unconscious casualty from the crevasse. Shattered his helmet. Would undoubtedly have been dead without it. The following four days it took to carry him to the coast and rescue are why I still wake up sweating (when stressed) convinced I’m snow blind and frost-bitten.

Actually I’m surprised it took me until me 40s to take wearing a helmet seriously, come to think of it.

[SamT]

Cheap BD Vapours..

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing/Rock-Trad-Climbing/Helmets/Black-Diamond-Vapor-Helmet?mc_cid=18a240e36e&mc_eid=5985717261

[crzylgs]

Cheap BD Vapours..

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing/Rock-Trad-Climbing/Helmets/Black-Diamond-Vapor-Helmet?mc_cid=18a240e36e&mc_eid=5985717261

Came here to post the same link!

I ended up not getting a helmet for my current trip (borrowed a friends instead!) and have just hopped onto Needle sports to get myself one of the M/L Vapours for £65! 

[Hacker]

Those links are to the original design of the Vapour which whilst is lightweight and low profile and nice to wear has a number of very big drawbacks:

Super delicate most people I've seen wearing these if you look at thier helmet closely they are cracked on the inside as the EPS is so thin and fragile that they have to use carbon rods inside it and a keeler sheet to hold it together and meet the CE ratings. It doesn't meet UIAA ratings.

One person I saw who did alot of winter climbing had put gaffa tape on the inside to stop thier head getting cold and this appeared to be the only thing holding it together.

The helmet also dents and marks up easily, given how little thickness in EPS foam there is reducing this is going to decrease safety over time, if the cracking doesn't happen first. Having jumped on alot of retired helmets it is alarming how easily this one is destroyed

The newer model made in a similar way to the sirocco fixes these problems with flexible EPP in the main body of the helmet which is more durable than the pure EPS version or other helmets such as the meteor (correcting one of the first posts which is incorrect). It still retains EPS under the crown for top impact protection under the polycarbonate outer over the crown.

Is worth nothing however that because the meteor uses a bigger thickness of EPS compared to the old Vapour it is still very durable. And that the original orange Sirocco that was entirely EPS suffered from the same problems as the old Vapour