[yetix]

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/13291986/

Saw this today, could it have impacts on access in the future?

[spidermonkey09]

Short answer is no, its CROW land so the right to climb is protected.

[Fultonius]

Absolute bargain - get it bought!

[Will Hunt]

Short answer is no, its CROW land so the right to climb is protected.

What about the right to bolt though?

[Fiend]

Absolute bargain - get it bought!

Bloody hell yes. One of the few internationally significant sport venues we have, would be a far better use of BMC money than the amount allocated to comps. Then they could possibly do something to sort out parking?!

[cheque]

Would a new owner be able to install some sort of massive damp course behind it to stop it seeping? 

[Fultonius]

Would a new owner be able to install some sort of massive damp course behind it to stop it seeping? 

Get some horizontal directional drilling in there, divert it all into a pipe and sell the water in bottles? Special Kilnsey water?

@Feind.... who needs the BMC, I'm sure between Pete JH, Shark etc. they could have a whip round and get it out of petty change?

[tim palmer]

Would this be a realistic possibility? 
I think the American alpine club or the access fund have bought some crags haven't they? 
Obviously would take some fund raising but might avoid a lot of problems in the future.

[SA Chris]

BMC already owns several crags, including Longridge, Stone Farm Rocks, Horseshoe Quarry, Aldery Cliff and Craig Bwlch Y Moch. No idea how much they were each for.

[Bonjoy]

Absolute bargain - get it bought!

Bloody hell yes. One of the few internationally significant sport venues we have, would be a far better use of BMC money than the amount allocated to comps. Then they could possibly do something to sort out parking?!

I'll raise the question with the BMC body that has bought crags in the past, but the following things spring to mind (sorry to be a downer).
I don't think the purchase would help with the parking. The road and verge are managed by local Highways. I'm not sure the land package has any suitable areas for off road parking. The verge couldn't be widened without impacting the stream, which would not get approval in an SSSI.
A purchase would remove the risk of a landowner objecting to existing or new bolts, although it could actually complicate equipping work... How often do equippers currently seek permission off Natural England to bolt?

[spidermonkey09]

BMC already owns several crags, including Longridge, Stone Farm Rocks, Horseshoe Quarry, Aldery Cliff and Craig Bwlch Y Moch. No idea how much they were each for.

Nominal fees as I understand it. Sure Bonjoy knows more. Crookrise was £18k according to articles when it was bought. Longridge I understood to be a bargain due to the farmer who owned the land previously having a soft spot for climbers.

Also there is no problem with parking really; ample laybys within walking distance even on busy days.

[Bradders]

Surely in this day and age with all sorts of shit being crowdfunded the climbing community could make this happen. Pretty incredible opportunity to both safeguard future access and try to improve things (toilets maybe?) at one of the UK's most important venues.

[Serpico]

Longridge I understood to be a bargain due to the farmer who owned the land previously having a soft spot for climbers.

I don't think this is true, the farmer had already sold the land to guy that owns the caravan park.

[cheque]

I was told that Horseshoe Quarry cost £1.

[Paul B]

Surely in this day and age with all sorts of shit being crowdfunded the climbing community could make this happen. Pretty incredible opportunity to both safeguard future access and try to improve things (toilets maybe?) at one of the UK's most important venues.

If access is all but guaranteed, why would you spend money here rather than somewhere more at risk?

[Fiend]

I was told that Horseshoe Quarry cost £1.

Still a rip-off.

[Serpico]

Surely in this day and age with all sorts of shit being crowdfunded the climbing community could make this happen. Pretty incredible opportunity to both safeguard future access and try to improve things (toilets maybe?) at one of the UK's most important venues.

The problem with the BMC buying crags is that it can encourage landowners, who may have a crag on land with no development value, to ban access or make the crag unclimbable unless the BMC buys it. This is essentially what happened with Longridge - the landowner banned access and piled earth up against the face.

[petejh]

@Feind.... who needs the BMC, I'm sure between Pete JH, Shark etc. they could have a whip round and get it out of petty change?

Ziplines.. a mid-height via-ferrata traversing the length of the cliff.. children's ropes course.. merchandise stall selling 'Go Climb a Rock' and Lattice t-shirts  I can see it now    What do you say Shark.

[spidermonkey09]

Surely in this day and age with all sorts of shit being crowdfunded the climbing community could make this happen. Pretty incredible opportunity to both safeguard future access and try to improve things (toilets maybe?) at one of the UK's most important venues.

If access is all but guaranteed, why would you spend money here rather than somewhere more at risk?

This.

Stand corrected re Longridge, I think I got that off a Shark post on here!

[Adam Lincoln]

Longridge was bought combining a whip round of climbers and bmc money.

Can’t remember exact figure.

[Probes]

I think it was 8k raised and bought for 20k.   

[SA Chris]

Crookrise was £18k according to articles when it was bought

Forgot about Crookrise, that sounds like a good deal. I might see if they will sell it on, I'll buy it and ship it up to Aberdeenshire!

[shark]

Longridge I understood to be a bargain due to the farmer who owned the land previously having a soft spot for climbers.

I don't think this is true, the farmer had already sold the land to guy that owns the caravan park.

Not what Dave Turnbull said to me - they got it off the farmer who as Spidermonkey says seemed to have a soft spot for climbers

[shark]

Short answer is no, its CROW land so the right to climb is protected.

What about the right to bolt though?

Quite. If an owner wanted to stop sport climbing they could by taking  the bolts out for starters. CROW access doesn’t extend to allowing putting bolts into crags. There are also other ways that a landowner could make things difficult if they wanted to.

[Serpico]

Longridge I understood to be a bargain due to the farmer who owned the land previously having a soft spot for climbers.

I don't think this is true, the farmer had already sold the land to guy that owns the caravan park.

Not what Dave Turnbull said to me - they got it off the farmer who as Spidermonkey says seemed to have a soft spot for climbers

Here you go: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/2007/10/the_bmc_have_bought_craig_y_longridge_for_us-40632

[Tony]

Given the right to close open access land for 28 days per year this could be a good opportunity for a moderately wealthy climber to avoid (some of) the queues…

[Fultonius]

I'm going to raise a motion for the SMC to buy it and make it a members only crag... Down with the sassenach 

[Paul B]

It'll also include the sale of 'the most dangerous Strava segment' too presumably?

[rginns]

Longridge I understood to be a bargain due to the farmer who owned the land previously having a soft spot for climbers.

I don't think this is true, the farmer had already sold the land to guy that owns the caravan park.

Not what Dave Turnbull said to me - they got it off the farmer who as Spidermonkey says seemed to have a soft spot for climbers

Here you go: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/2007/10/the_bmc_have_bought_craig_y_longridge_for_us-40632

Ha! Love the old skool youtube link to Mr. Lincoln cruising some classics in the early 2000s, mint. 

[shark]

BMC statement. Sounds like various wheels are in motion 🤞

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/Article.aspx?id=10611

[Adam Lincoln]

Quite surprised but its been bought by an ex climber called Ian wilson. No plans to change anything so must have more money than sense. Fair play to him

[Bradders]

Sounds like good news to me, nice one Ian.

[geoffg]

Just met him at the crag. Seems a very nice bloke on first acquaintance.

[Tony]

Did it come up in conversation about why he bought it?

I’m just curious/nosey.

There’s not much to be done with the land: it’s CRoW, SSSI, within a NP, under a limestone pavement order. You prob get some Countryside Stewardship grants but not much.

I mean this in the sense that there’s prob very little that can be done to either improve or impede access for climbing.

I imagine a landowner could remove bolts, though that’s a lot of effort.

[spidermonkey09]

Inheritance planning? IHT doesn't apply to agricultural land as I understand it.

[Johnny Brown]

Interesting. There was a fairly substantial rumour going round that The North Face had bought it. Anyone know if there was any truth behind it? I quite like the idea that Ian gazumped them.

[Neil F]

I was told TNF did bid for it, but were outbid (by Ian, it would seem).

Anyone know him from his time as a climber?

[Fiend]

Quite surprised but its been bought by an ex climber called Ian wilson. No plans to change anything so must have more money than sense. Fair play to him

I'd say he has some sense, why not own Kilnsey as an ex-climber eh! Fair play indeed.

[yetix]

Inheritance planning? IHT doesn't apply to agricultural land as I understand it.

I thought this only applied if the land was being used as agricultural land? Is that the case at Kilnsey? I could be wrong just what I thought my dad had said (he's a farmer). Unless it's part of a habitat scheme?

[Tony]

Inheritance planning? IHT doesn't apply to agricultural land as I understand it.

Poor quality farming land on which you will never be allowed to build is not going to get you great returns. And £150k is peanuts in IHT terms. There are definitely better IHT dodges out there…

[spidermonkey09]

Yep, true. Maybe it was simply an act of altruism!

[Bradders]

There's a chap I've seen at the crag a few times who turns up driving a bright orange Aston Martin, same bloke?

Anyway why does there have to be a reason? I really hope it was just a case of "man does nice thing for his community".

[Adam Lincoln]

There's a chap I've seen at the crag a few times who turns up driving a bright orange Aston Martin, same bloke?

Anyway why does there have to be a reason? I really hope it was just a case of "man does nice thing for his community".

Thats probably gorgeous George from the NE!

[lukeyboy]

Anyway why does there have to be a reason? I really hope it was just a case of "man does nice thing for his community".

Hear, hear. Not everything has to be an investment or make financial sense.

Sounds like a good result for the climbing community whatever the motivation.

[petejh]

I'm more interested in why TNF would supposedly bid for Kilnsey. Why? What would they have done with it?

[Tony]

For TNF, a fairly cheap publicity stunt. Brand ident stuff maybe?

I didn’t suggest the purchase was for any personal gain, I just asked why the purchaser bought it.

I also think that it would be unlikely any owner could make much material difference to climbers’ use of the crag (good or bad) given the limited extent of the land and the restrictions imposed on it. As I said earlier, best I could see is the right to close it for a few days a year…

[shark]

As I said earlier, best I could see is the right to close it for a few days a year…

…and take out all the fixed gear if you really wanted to dissuade climbers and climbing

[Potash]

As I said earlier, best I could see is the right to close it for a few days a year…

…and take out all the fixed gear if you really wanted to dissuade climbers and climbing

Final roll of the dice in the Frankie Comes to Kilnsey bolt wars. Militant aid climbers buy Kilnsey in order to finally restore the route to it's A5 glory.

[spidermonkey09]

As I said earlier, best I could see is the right to close it for a few days a year…

…and take out all the fixed gear if you really wanted to dissuade climbers and climbing

Still think this is vanishingly unlikely, pretty much impossible to accomplish without serious knowhow and likely the employment of professional rope access, would cost a fortune as a result, and would be met by both climbers putting new fixed gear in and collective outrage from climbers, UKC, BMC etc. You'd have to really, really care.

Obviously hope it never gets tested but there are numerous crags across the country where this risk theoretically applies I guess.

[Paul B]

"I for one welcome our new insect overlords"...

Anyway why does there have to be a reason? I really hope it was just a case of "man does nice thing for his community"

Being serious for a minute  .

[gme]

A good chunk of Northumberland bouldering is now on the market.
A few quid more than Kilnsey so the valuers must know what they are talking about.

https://www.knightfrank.com/properties/residential/for-sale/the-rothbury-estate-northumberland-ne65/cho012388737?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=TheRothburyEstate&fbclid=IwAR3Y5bUkksva7gprTjHcsVrJEf9dojBC5rBYjvwR1fUKJ4l-E5A_W9AoKOo_aem_Ad6mDHD0Ahtk8V5Eno0WKwRTO9aVf3J6PH452apSsH4oNQn9yHnD-AB9aUCd6luC2C4

[teestub]

Very interesting to see it marketed as a carbon offsetting opportunity, all the rage these days!