even if they're the best styles
They all onsigted 8c+ which is harder than redpointing 9b by today's standard. But none of them ever did 9b I think?
The routes haven’t gotten harder over the last ten years and kids these days don’t train enough endurance.At 10:32 mark
It might be the other way around a bit. The old generation of Usobiaga, Puigblanqué, Becan, Midtbø etc were much better at onsighting than at redpointing.
Okay, what is your simple rule which would have applied here?
Illegal Aid means Controlling or Using any of the following ... with any part of the body ... any Protection Point or the climbing rope
[ What to we think the gap "should" be, for someone good at both onsight and flash and RP? I always assume 2-3 for flash and 3-4 for onsight, but I wonder if it's true?Thinking about people near the top end who are good at both and have put a reasonable amount of effort into both:Ondra: 3 for flash, 4 for onsight (9a+, 9a, 9c) Megos: 3 for flash and onsight (9a, 9b+)Jacob: 3 for flash, 4 for onsight (9a, 8c+, 9b+)But are they actually disproportionately good at one or the other?
I'd propose a list (Remus??? ), who are the climbers that have onsighted at least 15 (or 20??) routes at 8c+ or 8c if there's none. Having criteria of 15 routes, should cover variety of styles / rock, thus better rounded climber.
He doesn't do much onsighting AFAIK, hence I excluded him from the list... (I guess 8c?)
Wouldn't be an easy one to put together unfortunately, I haven't done much work recording onsights below 8c+ (if anyone is psyched just let me know, would be cool to have more info here). I'd guess Barrows is on the right lines though, I'd be surprised if there were many people who had onsighted any significant volume at 8c. Lest we forget, Ondra is in a class of his own when it comes to lots of hard onsights.
Quote from: Bradders on July 03, 2023, 06:24:22 pmOkay, what is your simple rule which would have applied here?The simple rule that would have applied here is in The RulesQuoteIllegal Aid means Controlling or Using any of the following ... with any part of the body ... any Protection Point or the climbing ropeAlthough if I were appealed-against team's lawyer I would definitely try arguing that "Controlling or Using" implies intention. And, as jwi already pointed out, we can't actually know for certain it it was intentional or not - I personally think it's extremely unlikely that it was.
As a consequence of the non-action of the IFSC I resign with immediate effect from my voluntary position in the IFSC Medical Commission.Hereby I am drawing the same consequence as our MedCom president. We share the opinion that as medical doctors we can no longer accept the non-action of the IFSC concerning the RED-S problems of our athletes.I have been a #MedCom member since the inauguration of the IFSC in 2009. During that time frame we achieved many goals for the well-being of our athletes. However, the current politics with regards to RED-S cannot be accepted. We have worked for more than 10 years on the topic. We have collected numerous data, have measured BMI/MI at every WorldCup last year and have developed very profound plans how to detect and help athletes with such problems. We have spent many hours in meetings and on the desk establishing a new and better system of monitoring and decision making. As a consequence, we now have the most profound data on this matter of all sport disciplines. We have pointed out the problem and possible solutions to the sports director and board continuously and repeatedly. However, the only acknowledgement we have received has consisted of defamation and discouragement. In short, the IFSC may not be willing at all to undertake further action regarding this important health issue of its athletes and is acitvely delaying and slowing down any decisions that could lead to much needed action.As medical doctors we cannot accept this any longer.Sport climbing has a RED-S problem.Possible solutions to detect, evaluate and help critical athletes were developed through the Medical Commission.These solutions have been and are being ignored. No further action is taken by the IFSC.For the wellbeeing of our athletes and the development of this sport, I cannot take any responsibility on this matter and am forced to resign.Many thanks to my long-time colleagues and friends in the Medical Commission for their work and efforts, especially to our president Dr.Eugen Burtscher.I hope this step may help the cause and our athletes but I know it won‘t.Volker Schöffl – climbing doctor
