I would back Megos to flash the vast majority of E8s, if not all of them! Probably most of them in his approach shoes. Are there any you wouldn't?
Not going for something falls into a slightly different category for me. Guess I was thinking anything he would be prepared to try he would very likely flash.
I don't see the need to expand the E grade beyond UK shores as its so specialised using a weird technical grade that non UK climbers don't get.
Quote from: Kingy on April 06, 2023, 05:23:04 pmI don't see the need to expand the E grade beyond UK shores as its so specialised using a weird technical grade that non UK climbers don't get. E grades work for flash/ ground up climbing though surely? Don’t people just say “the E grade is for the onsight” as shorthand for “head pointing is different to normal trad climbing”? ‘Cos it is isn’t it? I haven’t looked into the e grader thing because it doesn’t really have much to do with the climbing I do but it does seem like people who’ve made climbing their job trying to formalise something that’s fun and daft so they and their successors can have more easily monetisable CVs.
I haven’t looked into the e grader thing because it doesn’t really have much to do with the climbing I do but it does seem like people who’ve made climbing their job trying to formalise something that’s fun and daft so they and their successors can have more easily monetisable CVs.
Surely the equation is simple and doesn't require a new tool and a press release:Greshamheadline-1 = E grade.
Was this personal dig necessary? It isn't even an accurate dig.
Interesting discussion. I think there are problems with saying the E grade only applies to on sight and not flash or indeed headpoint asents cos nobody has any better way of describing these 2 styles. 20 years ago, the 'H' grade for headpoints was coined which makes a lot of sense to me (H8 rather than E8 for a pre-practised ascent). A 'F' grade would be the logical tag for flashed ascents, so Megos would be F10 for the Path rather than E10. Can't see this catching on however.... I don't see the need to expand the E grade beyond UK and Irish shores as its so specialised using a weird technical grade that non UK climbers don't get. I would be happy with just using the American system with R or X or a French grade and 'trad' after it. So Voyage 8b+ trad and The Path 5.14R - no E grade required, simples! Everybody would get what a flash or onsight meant for non-UK/Irish routes without confusing matters with E points.
it does seem like people who’ve made climbing their job trying to formalise something that’s fun and daft so they and their successors can have more easily monetisable CVs.
Quote from: cheque on April 06, 2023, 05:50:04 pmI haven’t looked into the e grader thing because it doesn’t really have much to do with the climbing I do but it does seem like people who’ve made climbing their job trying to formalise something that’s fun and daft so they and their successors can have more easily monetisable CVs....and messing around the low to mid E grades, which aren't broken, in the process. Tail wagging dog, and not very well.Given the coordinated press release and pro climbers giving it props on insta etc, you'd think they could have ironed out some of the obvious wonkiness it spits out first.With a bit of tweaking it could be reasonably effective, but it might not give the results everyone wants.
Out of curiosity Andy, what is an example of obvious wonkiness? (Genuine question).
So here is a question for you people: How to do you differentiate between objective and subjective danger?
Quote from: MischaHY on April 07, 2023, 09:47:03 amOut of curiosity Andy, what is an example of obvious wonkiness? (Genuine question). I put a couple of examples on UKC of popular North Wales routes that come out a whole grade up (and there's nothing particularly unusual about them that should throw it off) - Cockblock Hard E6 and Pull My Daisy Hard E3. But more commonly it seems to give half a grade up, for routes in the lower extremes for which there is a well-established consensus and no call for an upgrade. For some routes it works fine, but it's not a small minority that get upgraded. I think maybe there is one too many steps between 'very well-protected' and 'very dangerous', which is probably because it's necessary to keep the algorithm simple.
What did you put in for cockblock and PMD, Molesy?
Um. Simplifying grading method results in oversimplification, shocker. But lots of attention for the sponsored climbers promoting it.