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Would you say something? (Read 3575 times)

Paul B

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#25 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 02:49:32 pm
Had a Euro-wad come to the UK to tick some Hard GritTM and he was busy setting up for an ab when I noticed he'd sunk a load of gear into the top of the buttress which he'd joined with old rope tied in a (large) loop). Nothing was even vaguely equalised as he confidently strode towards the edge.

monkoffunk

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#26 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:03:46 pm
It’s not the same, but reminds me of a story from my university club some years before I joined (which was about 2008). Member relatively new to trad climbing had a fatal fall after gear ripped. Apparently gear had been falling out all day and belayer obviously regretted not saying anything.

If you see something truly dangerous I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t say something, even if you aren’t directly involved as in the case. Worst case scenario someone calls you a dick and you get on with your day. Worst case if you don’t say something, you live with the regret of not having done so when something horrendous does happen.

shurt

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#27 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:05:59 pm
I think it's good to say something but not be a sick about it, like much in life...

Slightly related, was at the Roaches and a guy was really struggling on an E3 and after a run out back clipped some bits of gear. After me and my mates talked one of us had a quiet word with the belayer and it was him that shouted up to the climber.

I guess there's always a tactful way of doing things, if people get offended it's their problem. We're all part of the climbing community so should try and help each other stay safe and not die, whenever possible...

Will Hunt

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#28 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:13:18 pm
I was once at the top of Stennis Ford in Pembs and went over to chat to a woman sat at the edge belaying her partner toproping Ghost Train. Was sat there a few mins before I suddenly realised she wasn’t attached to anything so I scrambled around shitting myself finding something to clip her into. She was totally unfazed and just said “yeh safety first I guess”. A few mins later he fell off and shouted “take” as the rope went tight.

I'm sure there must be something I'm not getting here. Are you saying that the person was sitting on the grass at the top, with the rope and belay device clipped to them, and there was no anchor whatsoever? Was there an anchor that she was direct belaying to but she hadn't clipped herself to it?

SA Chris

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#29 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:21:47 pm
How many people wear helmets cycling in the Netherlands? Cycling safety correlates to safe infrastructure, not helmets.

Very noble of cyclists in this country, where we have crap cycling infrastructure, to not wear helmets in the hope that their smashed crania will collectively prompt government into action.

If my commute entailed a dead flat vehicle free route with well maintained surface I would probably forego a helmet. However that is certainly not the case here.

Paul B

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#30 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:26:51 pm
But let's not pretend that your XPS MIPS helmet is going to do anything beyond the SQRT(FA) when it comes in contact with an Audi SQ8 grille! I wear one, religiously.

SA Chris

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#31 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:30:19 pm
Me too. On most of the cycling I do (quite back roads and mountain biking), my worst danger is me.

ali k

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#32 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 03:30:36 pm
I'm sure there must be something I'm not getting here. Are you saying that the person was sitting on the grass at the top, with the rope and belay device clipped to them, and there was no anchor whatsoever? Was there an anchor that she was direct belaying to but she hadn't clipped herself to it?
Her partner had presumably abbed down before I got there because there was an anchor set up, plus loads of rope trailing all over the place at the top, including the rope going down to him. She was sat on the grass with his rope through her belay device clipped to her. But she wasn't secured in any way to the anchor at the top. So I had to scrabble around to put a bite into the anchor rope and find something (think it was a loose QD lying around) to attach her to that anchor with. It took me a few mins to notice cos of the rope all over the place.

I thought she'd just forgotten to clip herself in but her comment about "safety first" and not freaking out suggests she didn't think it was necessary!

cheque

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#33 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 05:26:55 pm
I often wander across the top of yer Stanages and yer Froggatts taking pictures of people climbing. I stopped looking too closely at people’s belay setups after I realised that very few fall into the category of what I’d build (obviously mine are the platonic ideal of safety and practicality  :ang: ) most are either total overkill or, while not being something that’s going to lead to belayer and second decking, are some weird semi-sketchy shit. Obviously if I see something downright dangerous I mention it, in the same way I’d say “mate, you need to hold onto the rope” in jwi’s example.

Anyway, now that’s out of the way I’ll  join in sharing a horror story.  :popcorn:

I was climbing at Stanage Popular one day and a bunch of three blokes showed up next to us- two middle-aged beergut sort of guys and their younger mate who I think was one of their colleagues who they’d recently started bringing to the wall and crag. He was gearing up to lead a route that they said was too difficult for them these days and there was much banter that we got drawn into about how he “hated gear” and just ran up anything they pointed him at without stopping to place much, which was kind of irrelevant as he was bad at placing it.

So it came to pass that he dispatched the route, legs shaking at the crux as he’d eschewed taking the #4 cam I’d suggested would be handy on the grounds that it was too big and heavy.

The older guys were still laughing after he’d disappeared from sight and they were tying in. The first was halfway up on second and not finding it easy when urgent shouting came from above. Someone walking along the top had spotted that the guy our new friends for some reason trusted to build a belay despite constantly describing as unsafe and a maniac was belaying off a single small rock that was barely wedged in the earth. The bloke seconding went pale and clung on for dear life while the passer-by and my mate remedied the situation. That was the end of the banter.

monkoffunk

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#34 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 06:00:33 pm
I often wander across the top of yer Stanages and yer Froggatts taking pictures of people climbing. I stopped looking too closely at people’s belay setups after I realised that very few fall into the category of what I’d build (obviously mine are the platonic ideal of safety and practicality  :ang: ) most are either total overkill or, while not being something that’s going to lead to belayer and second decking, are some weird semi-sketchy shit. Obviously if I see something downright dangerous I mention it, in the same way I’d say “mate, you need to hold onto the rope” in jwi’s example.

Anyway, now that’s out of the way I’ll  join in sharing a horror story.  :popcorn:

I was climbing at Stanage Popular one day and a bunch of three blokes showed up next to us- two middle-aged beergut sort of guys and their younger mate who I think was one of their colleagues who they’d recently started bringing to the wall and crag. He was gearing up to lead a route that they said was too difficult for them these days and there was much banter that we got drawn into about how he “hated gear” and just ran up anything they pointed him at without stopping to place much, which was kind of irrelevant as he was bad at placing it.

So it came to pass that he dispatched the route, legs shaking at the crux as he’d eschewed taking the #4 cam I’d suggested would be handy on the grounds that it was too big and heavy.

The older guys were still laughing after he’d disappeared from sight and they were tying in. The first was halfway up on second and not finding it easy when urgent shouting came from above. Someone walking along the top had spotted that the guy our new friends for some reason trusted to build a belay despite constantly describing as unsafe and a maniac was belaying off a single small rock that was barely wedged in the earth. The bloke seconding went pale and clung on for dear life while the passer-by and my mate remedied the situation. That was the end of the banter.

Quite incredible given the insight they clearly had.

jwi

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#35 Re: Would you say something?
April 06, 2023, 07:27:27 pm
I presume this is in France JWI? 

Not sure it makes any difference, but as you say there may be a bit more of a self-reliant culture there? 

I would potentially say something but it would be on a case by case basis depending on the feel of the situation and my mood. Probably not very helpful...

Yeah, this was in France. No one else was visibly bothered, and at least one guy who climbed near them is a rock-climbing instructor (which is regulated by the government, and not easy to get).

A lot of unsafe belay methods kind-of-work as long as the leader doesn't fall without warning. But I have been dropped to the ground once (not very far), and almost to the ground twice (very far both times) by people clamping the thumb on the grigri.

The only belay test I have taken was in the US, where I had to do it to climb on toprope.

mrjonathanr

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#36 Re: Would you say something?
April 07, 2023, 10:57:34 am
If I saw someone doing something that might lead to an injury, I’d look to say something as non-confrontational as possible. To see an accident, knowing you might have been able to prevent it, would not be good.

mrjonathanr

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#37 Re: Would you say something?
April 07, 2023, 11:10:01 am

try and help each other stay safe and not die, whenever possible...

The new BMC participation statement?

tommytwotone

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#38 Re: Would you say something?
April 07, 2023, 03:06:30 pm
When I was rehabbing my broken arm years ago I'd frequently still go out to The Peak, just for a walk and take a few photos etc.


One time while sat at the Joe's Direct bit of Froggatt, sat eating my lunch a couple of Uni-age lads rocked up with couple of female mates.


Lads seemed to be climbers, albeit struggling to read the guidebook etc, girls very much not, but (I assume) out with the lads to give it a go.


One of lads managed to wobble up the VDiff / Sev or whatever there, which got my attention to begin with. Then proceeded to set up a belay / top rope.


One of the lasses then got harnessed up and ready with one of the lads belaying. Other lad went to tie her in.


By the forth attempt to tie a figure of 8 and some jokey "should it take this long?" type comments from the girls, I decided to step in.


Were deemed pretty relieved. I stuck around to keep an eye on the lads' belaying which TBF was OK.

 

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