[Fultonius]

As per the bouldering pics threads, I was hoping to learn some tips and tricks about better tweaks and edits that could be done to create nice but not "overdone" photos. I use an Olympus EM5MkIII and usually the 12-100 F4 lens, DXO Photolab 4 and Fastraw viewer. My photography is mainly about creating nice memory photos of trips etc. but with the best composition I can muster. I'm an engineer by trade, and lacking artistic talent. Good understanding of all the general photography and editing concepts, just not so good at using them to maximise the end result.

Here are a few photos from our recent Costa Blanca Trip: 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/r93DLJHWt64uZdYC6

My two favourites are:


El Tupe de Roca 6c+, Garx


And:



Viaje a la Locura 7b+, Cabeconet

I had a crude bash at removing the container from the ground on this one:



If anyone's interested, I'll create a one-drive folder for RAW files and you can head off and make your own edit and compare notes?  Also, any general pointers on the original photos are also welcome.

[User deactivated.]

These don't look overdone to me except for possibly the last one where the colour grade is a bit obvious and the sky is too blue. They are slightly more saturated than I would have chosen but that is personal taste and it's not excessive. The angles and positions of the climbers are good and the colours of the landscape are nice too. The Photoshop job on the crate is fine too, you generally don't need to be too perfect with things like this as no one will be studying that part of the image.

My hopefully constructive critique would be:

The photos have been taken at ISO 800 and 1000. Getting this down would reduce noise and increase your dynamic range. As a result of the high-ish ISO, there's a bit of softness/noise in the shadows and in these shots, the faces are in shadow. I usually increase the exposure/shadows on faces using a mask, but that will introduce more noise.

On the topic of faces, a compositional tip would be to try and get faces in the shots a bit more, especially the eyes. This is subjective but I find a photo to be much more compelling when you can see the persons face and emotion, even in climbing photos!

Selectively apply your edits. This might include colour grading an image but masking out the sky and peoples skin (and edit these independently), increasing sharpness/clarity in some parts of the image but not in others, classic dodging and burning (e.g. lifting the exposure of the subject), etc.

The skin tones do look a bit off but not miles off. Reference other photos with good skin tones to edit these.

Depending how much of a perfectionist you want to be in terms of removing distractions, in photo 1, the quickdraw at the top of the photo (things intersecting the edges of the photo are usually more distracting) and items on the ground could be deleted. In photo 3, the bush at the edge of the photo could go.

Of course, it's easy to be a critic and I'm not suggesting I would have done better, but hopefully this helps!

[Paul B]

Pretty much agree with all of that. Shooting a little wider than you initially might want is useful room for manoeuvre for cropping later and will help you avoid the half bolt/QD (if only I remembered to listen to myself). I don't know if you've lifted the exposure of these as a whole but sense checking the illumination level of your screen and your histogram was a useful tip I was given.

In terms of selectively enhancing images, raising the exposure on focal points (like faces or climbers if they're smaller) really helps and you don't need to do it by much. I'm also fond of running a high pass filter, de-saturating that layer and using an appropriate blend mode and layer mask to add sharpness where I want it. It's been a while but I'd usually do this then back-off the layer transparency as a whole. This is easily overdone (and I'm definitely guilty of that).

WRT to skin tones, is your screen calibrated?

Are you using camera profiles in your software to correct distortion/for colour correction?

Personally, I find shooting with a relatively small sensor and wide lens a particularly challenging thing to do as I opt for the opposite using a long lens pretty much wide open on a FF body. This allows me perhaps the lazy crutch of using the DoF to isolate the climber. I've also been quite fond of using my 17-40mm at f/4 with something relatively close in the foreground to give the same effect.

Pick climbing partners that are neat or tidy up the base of the crag. It's a lot easier than post (abandoned IBCs are another matter).

[SA Chris]

I was going to comment on clutter too.

Worth looking at some of the seasoned pros on Instagram, like Mike Hutton, Ray Wood and Jim Thornburg etc. See the light that really makes their photos stand out. 

[Fultonius]

Thanks for all the tips.

My monitor is calibrated and the lens/camera should be being corrected in DXO automatically.

I used a white spot on the helmet to set white balance - not quite sure what you mean by using a reference for skin tones? Just using another photo that looks nice and try to match it?

WRT to ISO, I had the camera set on shutter priority 1/800 and auto-iso. I could try 1/400 to get better ISO? I've now just updated my custom "sports" setting to be 1/400 sec and max iso of 400. I guess if there's not enough light I'll just need to boost it in post.  One thing I need to fidget with is the focus mode. I have it in continuous AF and I think that's resulting in softer shots that single AF, but it's really handy for actual action. I guess climbing is actually pretty low speed so it's possibly ok to lock focus on the first shot? Is it even worth doing manual focus seeing as you probably know the focus point?

Personally, I find shooting with a relatively small sensor and wide lens a particularly challenging thing to do as I opt for the opposite using a long lens pretty much wide open on a FF body. This allows me perhaps the lazy crutch of using the DoF to isolate the climber. I've also been quite fond of using my 17-40mm at f/4 with something relatively close in the foreground to give the same effect.

I'm not likely to change kit any time soon, so I'll just need to work with what I have. 24mm FF equiv is the widest I have and te DOF is equivalent to F8, so I'm a bit stuck there really.

Pick climbing partners that are neat or tidy up the base of the crag. It's a lot easier than post (abandoned IBCs are another matter).

  I hadn't thought of tidying up kit, but I had actually wondered about dragging the IBC away out of shot. Will do next time!

Depending how much of a perfectionist you want to be in terms of removing distractions, in photo 1, the quickdraw at the top of the photo (things intersecting the edges of the photo are usually more distracting) and items on the ground could be deleted. In photo 3, the bush at the edge of the photo could go.

I've never really bother tying to edit stuff out before, but the tools on DXO actually seem pretty powerful so I'll be doing a wee bit more of that now - the quickdraw is a bit of a shame, as I think it adds a sense of "purpose" to the image, but as you say it either needs cut out, or framed with more space.

Lots to ponder, so thanks for that. 



Did some dodging on the face (good), removed clutter (good) and blurred the bottom (which I think looks a bit naff - it's just not bokeh!).

[Johnny Brown]

Your post/ editing looks fine to me. I do as little as possible, I’ve got a basic preset I use and tweak but mainly do it in camera unless I’m stacking or stitching. You can’t fix photos in post, if they’re aren’t great they aren’t great.

A gentle vignette is often preferable to the flat response of camera profiles so try dealing that back. I use a lot of digitalgrads to bring skies down, occasionally brushes to darken areas or brighten faces.

Compositionally on those I’d suggest shooting from a little lower so you get less floor and more context. Climbing usually takes place in nice places, include it. Try not to chop stuff in half with edges or corners.

Use aperture priority unless there’s a reason to go fill manual, or program if you’re not sure. I don’t think I’ve ever used shutter priority, maybe for motorsport or wildlife with a very bright background. Likewise continuous AF, climbing is mostly landscape as far as auto modes are concerned. I mostly use manual for both but decoupling single AF to a custom button is better as it avoids random mistakes.

‘Correct’ white balance isn’t always the best choice, but often worth a try.

That doesn’t mean shutter isn’t important, but in climbing  it’s rarely a creative control so better to start by choosing the aperture for dof or not, then check the shutter is fast enough and if not increase iso. On small sensors you want to avoid pushing the iso up unnecessarily.

[cheque]

12-100mm on M4/3’s fine for shooting routes.

I use DxO too but I’m not sure I’m qualified to advise on colour and exposure editing apart from I always do it in two sessions- one where I fiddle with little bits until I can’t judge whether it’s making it better or worse (doesn’t take very long) then another at least 24 hours later when I can immediately see the one or two tweaks it needs. The only time I ever have a third session is when I have to submit something in which case I often make a copy and edit it again from scratch with the aim of making a far better edit. It usually ends up indistinguishable from my previous version.

I feel like the difference between a “wow look at that!” picture and a “yep, that’s a rock climbing photo” picture is usually one little detail and it’s never the editing. All of these, particularly this one need the climber‘s eyes or face visible more than anything. It’s harder with be-helmeted climbers… use burst mode and machine gun ‘em. 

I always use full manual exposure and single, back-button autofocus. When I shot M4/3 I did everything I could to keep it below ISO500. You should be able to get away with shutter speeds down to 1/200.

Just found out that JB posted while I was writing this so apologies for any overlap!

[SA Chris]

Composition and lighting, I  like the last one in the set in google, just a shame it's such a static position.

[Yossarian]

This is all quite interesting. (I bought a new camera recently (Sony A7 IV) and am still getting to grips with how complicated everything seems compared to the last one I had (a Nikon D200). Might start another thread sometime about video for climbing, as most YouTube instructional things seem to be also a bit over complicated).

Anyway. As someone who used to spend days on end retouching / extracting / generally dicking around with product / interior photographs, the idea of doing it for fun fills me with dread. Though I suppose it has got a bit easier these days.

On a composition / image selection note, I think a lot of good climbing photos are the result of the photographer realising that it’s a little like street / reportage photography in a landscape setting. I.e. you’re attempting to capture a personality or an emotional state. In fact, there’s probably a lot to be learned from looking at the best people photographers - Richard Avedon for example - and seeing how much of that he manages to pack in.

I think Ray Wood’s picture of Leo on Trauma does a very good job of communicating intense concentration in a tenuous and serious position, which kind of sums Leo up. Similarly, the best photos of Ondra are the wild grimace in extreme position ones, because that’s his thing. Conversely, I think the best photos of Dave Graham are  the ones where he’s very still and looking intently at the next hold / move (sometimes with a rope in his teeth).

I also particularly like unposed (or posed, depending on the subjects) pictures at the bottom of the crag, mountain, etc. I think my favourite is the Doug Scott pic of Mo Anthoine, Clive Rowland and Tut Braithwaite having a fag and a mug of tea in Union Jack hats next to a tent on the Ogre. It’s a genius example of the capture of a kind of mundane British ritual transposed to an extreme setting, and their kind of indifferent nonchalance makes it all the more delicious.

I think for sport climbing like your pics, it’s more interesting when the face matches up with how the move/ position looks. I.e. if blue helmet guy was frowning / puffing / gurning on those gastons. It’s obvs not easy though to get the face in shot at the perfect moment whilst you’re hanging from a rope!

[cheque]

I bought a new camera recently (Sony A7 IV) and am still getting to grips with how complicated everything seems compared to the last one I had

That’s Sony menu systems for you.