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Qatar World Cup (Read 19994 times)

cheque

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#125 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 12:09:18 pm
Not sticking up to Qatar it should never have been there but they have put on a good World Cup to the point I would suggest fifa will be happy to go to one of the other gulf states in a few years.

Saudi Arabia are one of the potential hosts for 2030. FIFA want to start having a World Cup every two years too, to muscle the local confederations out of the continental tournaments. If that comes to pass we’ll probably see it in Qatar again before too long- they’ve got all the stadiums sitting there now after all. FIFA would put a World Cup on the moon if the money was there. They made literally a billion more out of this World Cup than usual due to the savings of having it so close together and previously-untapped Middle Eastern sponsorship.

Something I have thought which may prove to be a longer term benefit is the decentring of European football which occurs by holding it away from the normal footballing seats of power. I think the effect of pretty clear in the Morocco Spain game, with absolutely massive support for Morocco from the Arab and African fans in a way that simply wouldn't have happened had it been elsewhere. Also visible in the Saudis defeat of Argentina (still can't believe that happened). This provincialisation of European football is desperately needed…

Apart from the idea that only Europe dominates international football (you know that South American teams have won 9 of the 21 World Cups right?  ;) ) I agree with this. Neutrals want variety and upsets.

USA 94 was the first World Cup to be hosted in a region that had never produced a winner and there was uproar at the time but it produced a more open-feeling tournament much like this one and Africa and Japan/ South Korea were similar. I don’t think “routine” is exactly the right term for South Korea’s relationship with the knockouts but it’s interesting to look at when they have got through- the three hosted by nations outside the two traditional centres of power.

Infantino’s response to criticism of the location of the World Cup has been to emphasise how part of it (and indeed FIFA’s) purpose is that it grows the game around the world and brings different nations together etc. and while he’s deliberately missing the point of the concerns (and misrepresenting his interest in broadening the global appeal- his biggest concern is keeping the minor federations sweet as they’re the key to him being re-elected unopposed) it’s true.

Duncan says much higher up this thread that people object to a country without a decent side hosting but I don’t have a problem with that personally. Qatar are the first hosts ever to not surf through to the knockouts on a wave of local support but I can’t see that as wrong. There are lots of positive reasons to have the World Cup in the Middle East (or similar non-footbally areas) in theory. It’s the practical aspects of this one that are problematic, but obviously not the practical aspects that some are concentrating on. Obviously any super rich country won’t have a problem putting the matches on!

What lots of people seem to be missing is that compared to every other modern World Cup, there aren’t many fans of any nation there. It’s the ratios of fans and the inclinations of local neutrals that are different.

It’s really expensive and logistically complicated to go. It’s possibly better than any World Cup ever for those lucky enough to have hotels in Doha (there are still tickets available for every game and they’re all a tube journey away so if your pockets are deep enough you can go and see basically every match like a live version of watching them all on the telly) and certainly great for ex-pats working in the region but there aren’t anything like the number of hotel rooms needed to house all the fans so many have been faced with staying in other countries and flying in/ out on the day of the game. Obviously going to any World Cup is complicated but the number of fans who’ve been able to treat this in a “let’s pile down to Font in x’s van and figure it out on the way” is basically zero. FIFA don’t give a fuck about that though.

pundits didn't praise Japan at all after their victory over Spain and instead spent 15 minutes making thinly disguised accusations of a VAR stitch up!

I wouldn’t read too much into this, refereeing controversies routinely obliterate any other post-game discussion at club level too. It’s funny that before its introduction VAR was seen as something that would sort out controversial decisions once and for all  “all we’re saying is give them the help they need” :lol: .

Im sure the teams love that they don't have to move hotels all the time too.

Not sure how much that softens the blow of having literally no recovery time before the restart of the domestic seasons. Chelsea and Man City play each other in the League Cup four days after the final. Most of their first teams are still in Qatar. Not sure Chelsea would have been expecting Ziyech to still be there!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 12:36:53 pm by cheque »

spidermonkey09

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#126 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 12:37:18 pm
Yes, I should have said Europe/South American focus really, but even then European teams have won the last 4, and only Brazil of SAmerican teams have won it since '86. Hard to argue we aren't in a Europe-dominated period; until Brazil win this years final of course!

Re the recovery time and holding the WC in the middle of the European season, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't every single other world cup held in the middle of eg. the south american football season? If thats true and I think it is, I can't get too upset about this one being in the middle of a European season for once! If anything it might serve to level the playing field a bit given the dominance of European sides in the last 20 years.

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#127 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 01:03:59 pm
Plus the frequency of the matches at this stage is not that much more than busy periods in the domestic leagues.

cheque

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#128 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 01:42:47 pm
correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't every single other world cup held in the middle of eg. the south american football season? If thats true and I think it is, I can't get too upset about this one being in the middle of a European season for once! If anything it might serve to level the playing field a bit given the dominance of European sides in the last 20 years.

Yeah it’s a good point and it’s broadly true (football scheduling is less homogenous and much more of a moveable feast in South America, partly because national sides are seen as more important than clubs) but it’s a long time since the majority of the major South American nations players played for clubs in their home countries. Obviously that adds weight to the Eurocentric side of the debate  :lol:

I’m all for these kind of advantages being distributed evenly, I’m just saying any democratisation of sporting advantage, fan experience and player welfare at this World Cup is basically a happy accident.

Plus the frequency of the matches at this stage is not that much more than busy periods in the domestic leagues.

Only the English one. Every other European league has a winter break. The bigger issue is there’s no recovery period after the tournament. Usually it’s holiday time straight after and you can still see which players had a big World Cup at the start of the next season. Here’s an ex-pro’s insight.

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#129 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 01:48:09 pm
Duncan says much higher up this thread that people object to a country without a decent side hosting but I don’t have a problem with that personally. Qatar are the first hosts ever to not surf through to the knockouts on a wave of local support but I can’t see that as wrong.

South Africa?

Quote
Not sure how much that softens the blow of having literally no recovery time before the restart of the domestic seasons. Chelsea and Man City play each other in the League Cup four days after the final. Most of their first teams are still in Qatar. Not sure Chelsea would have been expecting Ziyech to still be there!

All of the top clubs have been managing the workload of their players all season with the world cup in mind. The level of professionalism and attention to detail in the top clubs these days is staggering.

Morocco doing well will have shocked Chelsea far less than it has shocked the average punter/pundit. Morocco are a much better side than they have been in the past. Chelsea will have factored in a reasonable probability of Morocco having made it this far.

It'll be interesting to see some analysis on the incidence of workload related injuries during this world cup and the rest of the season.

It'll also be interesting to see how the teams with few world cup players perform for the rest of the season.

spidermonkey09

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#130 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 01:49:46 pm
any democratisation of sporting advantage, fan experience and player welfare at this World Cup is basically a happy accident.

Yeah totally agree. Clearly that wasn't the main motivating factor behind sending the tournament to Qatar!  :devangel:

cheque

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#131 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 02:08:39 pm
South Africa?

 :lol: Looking at what actually happened it seems I’ve exaggerated the memory of them finishing third and not losing all their matches… I guess what I meant was that Qatar are the first hosts to really stink the place out and seemingly not even enthuse their home fans.

It'll also be interesting to see how the teams with few world cup players perform for the rest of the season.

Yeah absolutely. Before it kicked off I looked at which teams had the least. The barrage of WC fixtures has made me forget all about top-flight domestic football but I think it was something like Leeds, Wolves, Saints and possibly Palace, with some other lower-placed teams in the “you fear for them” category.  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 02:15:25 pm by cheque »

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#132 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 02:33:42 pm
SA are not utter slouches though, and have at least got to the group stages twice before on merit (and have performed well in the ACoN) prior to the current "West" African dominance, whereas it will be interesting to see in the future if Qatar now get anywhere in major tournaments.   

cheque

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#133 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 02:46:51 pm
Qatar won the Asian Cup in 2019 (beating South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Japan on the way) and got to the semis of the Gold Cup (which they were weirdly allowed to compete in as a warm-up for this tournament- they only lost to eventual winners USA and had the top scorer) last year, so already have major tournament pedigree believe it or not.

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#134 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 03:31:02 pm
To quote Wayne "I was not aware of that".

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#135 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 05:51:24 pm
I reckon we’re looking at one of those “plays brilliantly, scores loads of amazing goals but then goes out to stubborn opposition and everyone cries” Brazil sides myself so let’s say Argentina.

Jesus Christ cheque can you tell us the lottery numbers as well?!??

spidermonkey09

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#136 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 06:35:44 pm
until Brazil win this years final of course!


 :lol:  :tumble: :tumble: :tumble:

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#137 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 07:42:29 pm
Didn’t see that coming. They played well too. 21 shot,11 on target to Croatias 1.

Dutch win now would make my night.

spidermonkey09

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#138 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 08:30:19 pm
Yeah, absolute daylight robbery by the Croats really , but then again, getting caught on the break when you're 1 nil up in a quarter final, with 5 to go in extra time...

cheque

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#139 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 09:47:49 pm
Game management by both South American sides today has been amazingly poor. Argentina were keeping the ball off the Netherlands so well, particularly down the right hand side, for most of the match but then spent the last ten minutes giving it away.

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#140 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 10:02:25 pm
What a night of footy.
Best game so far that one.

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#141 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 10:25:20 pm
I reckon we’re looking at one of those “plays brilliantly, scores loads of amazing goals but then goes out to stubborn opposition and everyone cries” Brazil sides myself so let’s say Argentina.

Jesus Christ cheque can you tell us the lottery numbers as well?!??

 :lol: Cheque is obviously an undercover pundit.

How many of the Argentinian players are now on yellow cards though?

spidermonkey09

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#142 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 09, 2022, 10:27:16 pm
Yellow cards written off after tonight.

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#143 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 07:36:19 am
Is anyone else fed up with the way the commentators, pundits and media in general are just fawning over the ageing stars (Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar) rather than focusing on the upcoming talent? It sounded like the commentator was going to climax every time Messi got rhe ball last night. Yes he set up a goal and scored a pen, but not much else. Ronaldo is headline news when he doesn't start. Why not focus on the emerging talent?

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#144 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 08:31:44 am
Yellow cards written off after tonight.

Is that definitely true? I had thought he same, but on last night's coverage the TV graphic flashed up as "missed next game" when someone got booked, and on the BBC sport preview of the England match it mentions 2 French players who would miss the semi if they got booked.

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#145 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 08:39:48 am
Aye - there is a sense of "the Oscar for Lifetime achievement goes to..." about the coverage at times.  Messi plays a 5 yard pass sideways and the commentators are in ecstasy.  He has admittedly made incredibly important contributions (last time I looked he had more xG + xA than anyone), but there is no need to pretend that he doesn't spend most of each game mooching around and hoping the opposition forget he's there. 

Kevin de Bruyne commented on it during one of the group matches - he was surprised by an undeserved MoTM award and it was evidently just for a name recognition rather than achievement award. 

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#146 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 08:58:58 am
Players can miss the semi if they were booked in last 16 and QF, but if they were booked in QF and then again in SF they won't miss the final.

cheque

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#147 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 03:51:05 pm
Is anyone else fed up with the way the commentators, pundits and media in general are just fawning over the ageing stars

Britain’s meant to be a country that loves the underdog and I can’t help but think that part of that is because we have to listen to football commentators wanking themselves dry about the overdogs regardless of what’s actually happening.

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#148 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 07:38:58 pm
Is anyone else fed up with the way the commentators, pundits and media in general are just fawning over the ageing stars

Britain’s meant to be a country that loves the underdog and I can’t help but think that part of that is because we have to listen to football commentators wanking themselves dry about the overdogs regardless of what’s actually happening.

Speaking of, a world first tonight for Morocco!

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#149 Re: Qatar World Cup
December 10, 2022, 07:58:12 pm
Is anyone else fed up with the way the commentators, pundits and media in general are just fawning over the ageing stars

Britain’s meant to be a country that loves the underdog and I can’t help but think that part of that is because we have to listen to football commentators wanking themselves dry about the overdogs regardless of what’s actually happening.

Speaking of, a world first tonight for Morocco!

Yes, brilliant for them. A historic moment for African football. And within 10 minutes of the final whistle, the commentator on the radio had three times mentioned how he wasn't going to talk about Ronaldo because its not about him. Thus making it about him.

 

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