[Johnny Brown]

You don't but a hell of a lot of people do, so your in a minority. If it has a positive effect on many peoples lives we should support it even if we are not interested

You are missing the point. I would normally just ignore it but changing the school timetable? In an age when you can watch on demand? Get tae fuck.

As for supporting it, I think any time and effort I put in would be much better placed elsewhere. There are plenty of sports that don’t share the same negative crap football attracts, and let’s be honest it isn’t about sport for the majority it’s just entertainment and an excuse to get pissed and be boorish en masse. It’s in the same box as the royalty for me, privileged brats providing entertainment that brings out the brain dead side of nationalism. Kids should be steered well away from it.

The choice of Qatar has just brought all this into clearer focus for many. At this level the game is purely driven by big money, with all the compromises and fuckery that entails. That also tips me from ignore to resist.

[Ged]

, and let’s be honest it isn’t about sport for the majority it’s just entertainment and an excuse to get pissed and be boorish en masse. It’s in the same box as the royalty for me, privileged brats providing entertainment that brings out the brain dead side of nationalism.

It's very decent of you to let the rest of us know what classes as sport, what classes as entertainment, and judge us for our preference accordingly. Thanks. And I also humbly apologise for drinking beer whilst watching a football match.

And yes, I'm sure  the first 18 years of Bukayo Saka's life we're very similar to that of a member of the Royal family. Minus all of the wealth and privilege.

Damn quotes messed up, sorry

[cheque]

Imagine growing up with parents who wouldn’t let you watch football.

[edshakey]

You don't but a hell of a lot of people do, so your in a minority. If it has a positive effect on many peoples lives we should support it even if we are not interested

You are missing the point. I would normally just ignore it but changing the school timetable? In an age when you can watch on demand? Get tae fuck.

You don't think there's any benefit to kids watching it together at school? It's just one game (England don't have/can't have any other fixtures during school hours), 2 hours out of their day. School is about more than just teaching lessons out of books, these kind of experiences will be very memorable for some kids. For others, no harm done - maybe they chose the other activity on offer, or maybe they'll just think of it as any other school day and it won't have made much of an impression. Either way, it's unlikely to be creating a fresh generation of hooligans, nor will it severely impact the amount of other learning they'll get done this term.

It's important to note that lots of kids are already interested in football and so may be pretty distracted in lessons if the game is going on. Maybe the teachers think that this is the best way for them to get the most out of that time at school - watching and bonding with classmates, rather than sneaking looks at their phones to find the score. (I'm aware this mainly applies to older kids, maybe secondary school and up)

There are plenty of sports that don’t share the same negative crap football attracts, and let’s be honest it isn’t about sport for the majority it’s just entertainment and an excuse to get pissed and be boorish en masse. It’s in the same box as the royalty for me, privileged brats providing entertainment that brings out the brain dead side of nationalism. Kids should be steered well away from it.

I'm not sure if this is you speaking from past experience, or simply ignorance, but this is a very clumsy take on football in the UK (to be polite). Yes there are problems with alcohol/drugs and the behavior that causes. But that is a small number of football fans, far far away from a "majority". They obviously cause the headlines, which makes sense, since the headline "99% of crowd attend match and have pleasant, friendly afternoon" doesn't quite hit the same.

If you go to literally any football match, you'll see many other people there simply enjoying the sport.
If you go to a pub/bar to watch a game, you'll see many people with pints in their hands, but enjoying the socialising and the entertainment more than wanting to get rowdy.

I understand and share many of the concerns about Qatar, FIFA, etc, and that football has some issues it needs to fix, but I think you're really missed the mark on this. Football may not be for you, but it's good for a lot of other people.

Source: being a football fan as a child; going to hundreds of league 1 and 2 games with my family, home and away; being a football fan as an adult.

[TobyD]

As for supporting it, I think any time and effort I put in would be much better placed elsewhere. There are plenty of sports that don’t share the same negative crap football attracts, and let’s be honest it isn’t about sport for the majority it’s just entertainment and an excuse to get pissed and be boorish en masse. It’s in the same box as the royalty for me, privileged brats providing entertainment that brings out the brain dead side of nationalism. Kids should be steered well away from it.

I totally disagree. Football wasn't a part of my growing up but is clearly a really good influence on a lot of people. The atmosphere in Sheffield before the England vs Sweden women's game was completely positive. Loads of people go to games as families, and clubs of all sizes are part of their communities. Like it or not, it is our national sport, and the Premier League is one of the UK's most successful exports . I'm not passionate about football, but I don't see the point in doing it down.

[webbo]

Any how slightly off tangent Ronaldo has left Man U with immediate effect.
He is playing at the WC.

[Johnny Brown]

And yes, I'm sure  the first 18 years of Bukayo Saka's life we're very similar to that of a member of the Royal family. Minus all of the wealth and privilege.

You’re quite right, privileged was the wrong word. I should have written overpaid.

The comparison with the royal family was not meant to equate the players with royalty, I meant the way in which a sizeable proportion of the population adore them to the confusion of the rest - a bigger group than fans typically notice given the ease of finding someone else to drone on about the game with.

Like I said, I’m happy to ignore it mostly but this tournament is clearly deeply problematic and putting it on in a primary school where kids are not allowed mobiles I find ridiculous.

[Ged]

And yes, I'm sure  the first 18 years of Bukayo Saka's life we're very similar to that of a member of the Royal family. Minus all of the wealth and privilege.

You’re quite right, privileged was the wrong word. I should have written overpaid.

The comparison with the royal family was not meant to equate the players with royalty, I meant the way in which a sizeable proportion of the population adore them to the confusion of the rest - a bigger group than fans typically notice given the ease of finding someone else to drone on about the game with.

Like I said, I’m happy to ignore it mostly but this tournament is clearly deeply problematic and putting it on in a primary school where kids are not allowed mobiles I find ridiculous.

Is it not just that a sizeable proportion of the pokukation like football and therefore enjoy droning on about it? Is that droning on or is it just talking about something that they enjoy?

I get your point about the gross nature of footballers wages (although there's probably an argument to be had about market forces), but a lot of people don't adore the players in any way(in fact I think a fair bunch of them are pricks). They just enjoy watching an elite level sport that they have played, understand and can relate to.

I must admit I don't really understand your royalty comparison at all. I know people like to give footballers a hard time but make no mistake, nobody gets to play in the top flight of a European league without an astonishing amount of hard work and sacrifice. The ones that make it are well rewarded yes, but that doesn't bare any resemblance to the automatic privilege that royalty receive.

[moose]

I do wonder what Qatar had hoped to benefit? Increased tourism? No longer being the pariah state of the Middle East?

This - I keep wondering why they even wanted it?

If this was a PR exercise it's gone horribly wrong

I wonder if the reneging on settled agreements re alcohol and rainbow logos etc. is sword-waving directed to the rest of the Middle East e.g. Saudi Arabia as they have been engaged in pseudo cold war / conflict by proxy for ages.  Posturing as a regional hard-man - "look how we can force the West to obey us".  That's the only explanation that makes sense to me - showing a willingness to disregard contracts can't be good for attracting business with multinationals.

[northern yob]

My kid's school spent the entire afternoon watching the game, they had the choice apparently of do arts and crafts or watch the game. I'm a bit livid.

Ditto. Hopefully England get knocked out ASAP. I couldn't give less of a fuck.

Ha ha best comment in a while on here! It’s also a bit harsh. As you know I love it.

As already pointed out there are loads of positive aspects to football as well as the bad ones!

Show me a sport that’s perfect…. Climbing could learn a lot from football when it comes to inclusivity! It certainly isn’t only white, privileged middle class kids that enjoy it.

This World Cup shouldn’t ever have been awarded to Qatar but football has so much to give!

In 1988 I went to Wembley with Burnley on a coach with loads of mates and their dads. We still go to the football, I meet people I’ve known for 40yrs for a pint before the game, those same lads and dads, we take our kids to the game, and they love it. It gives them some pride in where they come from and some identity within their communities.

Just because you don’t get it or buy into it doesn’t mean it has no value. And as for school I’d rather they watched the football than did RE lessons. I think a sense of community and some national pride is something that is a positive thing and should be encouraged through our education system.

Oh and lighten up Scrooge…..

[petejh]

JB you're only a comprehensive school removed from arguing on here for jumpers for goalposts every day of the week.

[mrjonathanr]

Latest match report here:

[JamieG]

I find some of the arguments comparing this World Cup to other sports and even other parts of football a bit ‘whataboutism’. Sure almost every sport has dirty money in it and football as a whole has never dealt with LGBT, racism etc issues well. But what other major sporting event has been built on literal slave labour and thousands of deaths. Not a few, thousands.

(I love football and normally watch loads of the World Cup)

[SA Chris]

I agree that player's wages are ludicrous, but at a grassroots level I'm sure that in the UK football has a bigger impact on getting people of all age groups doing some exercise than any other sport.

[Will Hunt]

Broadcasters seem to be making a special effort to highlight the problems with the host nation. Yesterday, for instance, the BBC made it a significant part of their Match of the Day coverage to debunk the claim that this World Cup is carbon neutral. Mike Berners-Lee described it as the most carbon intensive event outside of a war in human history...

[petejh]

Sure almost every sport has dirty money in it and football as a whole has never dealt with LGBT, racism etc issues well. But what other major sporting event has been built on literal slave labour and thousands of deaths. Not a few, thousands.

While it isn't OK, you can't really avoid a bit of whataboutism because the circumstances of the world cup don't exist in a vacuum separate from the rest of the world like some utopian snowglobe in the desert.

For a prime bit of whataboutery - much of the infrastructure of the UK is built on the deaths of (literally) hundreds of thousands of dead construction workers and tradespeople. Just one small example, in the1950s asbestos was introduced. Today respiratory disease linked to Asbestos is killing around five thousand mostly men annually, year in year out. 8% of all deaths reported to a coroner in the UK are attributed to an industrial illness.

That's no excuse, one death is one too many. And I agree with you that the WC in Qatar leaves a bad taste. But it's a reality of the world we inhabit. Most people in the world don't work in academia, tech, marketing or journalism.     

[TobyD]

I do wonder what Qatar had hoped to benefit? Increased tourism? No longer being the pariah state of the Middle East?

This - I keep wondering why they even wanted it?

If this was a PR exercise it's gone horribly wrong

I wonder if the reneging on settled agreements re alcohol and rainbow logos etc. is sword-waving directed to the rest of the Middle East e.g. Saudi Arabia as they have been engaged in pseudo cold war / conflict by proxy for ages.  Posturing as a regional hard-man - "look how we can force the West to obey us".  That's the only explanation that makes sense to me - showing a willingness to disregard contracts can't be good for attracting business with multinationals.

I doubt that Qatar gives much of a jot what anyone else thinks, at the moment, they have lots of LNG, which the whole of Europe, including the UK desperately needs at the moment because of the Russia situation. Absolutely no government would risk pissing them off if it might jeopardize gas supplies. I would think that the prestige is their motivation for the world cup, which is one over the Saudis in their eyes, true. They are probably feeling put out that the Qatari team hasn't been terribly impressive to say the least; whereas Saudi Arabia just beat one of the favourites...

[JamieG]

I'm not so naïve that I think that the Qatar world cup exists in a vacuum. There are obvious problems worldwide with labour practices and the UK is a prime example of wealth built on blood.

But to use your asbestos example. It has been banned for many years now (we almost definitely took too long to implement a full ban), but at least it is now no longer used. Similarly, I would hope that the Qatar world cup would hold a spotlight on awful labour practices that should also cease to exist. I think the fact it is all in the name of entertainment is what really stinks.

I also think just saying 'it's a reality of the world we inhabit', make it sound like we should just accept it and get on with our day. That's pretty weak. Protests/boycotts do work, albeit messily and slowly. We should be striving for better.

I take it back! I am naïve!  But better that than cynical.

[SA Chris]

at the moment, they have lots of LNG, which the whole of Europe, including the UK desperately needs at the moment because of the Russia situation. Absolutely no government would risk pissing them off if it might jeopardize gas supplies.

This is true, but it is also a fortunate situation that they find themselves in at present, which they could have in no way predicted when they made their bid.

[petejh]

I also think just saying 'it's a reality of the world we inhabit', make it sound like we should just accept it and get on with our day. That's pretty weak.

I don't think it means that at all. Placing things in context is important for understanding them.

We should be striving for better.

Agree, and we think we are.

[Johnny Brown]

JB you're only a comprehensive school removed from arguing on here for jumpers for goalposts every day of the week.

I think you underestimate the level of one-upmanship involved at my school Pete:

The oldest copy of the Laws of the Game in the world currently resides in the School's Moser Library, Salopians having played a prominent part in the meetings held to codify the game in the mid-19th century.

[petejh]

 

Fair do's. You ARE the original 'jumpers for goalposts'!

[gme]

On the actual football front this world cup has started with a right bang. If it continues like it is it could actually be one of the best ones in a long time.

 6 goals for England, great Wales v USA match, Argentina lose to Saudi Arabia and now Japan beat Germany and we are only a few days in.

[TobyD]

This is true, but it is also a fortunate situation that they find themselves in at present, which they could have in no way predicted when they made their bid.

The war, perhaps not. But, to be fair 50 years ago, Qatar was one of the poorest countries in the world, now they're the 4th richest in terms of GDP per capita; they went for gas in the 1970s, not just fortune, some good decision making as well.

Nevertheless, I bet they're seething about the success of the Saudis though...

[TobyD]

On the actual football front this world cup has started with a right bang. If it continues like it is it could actually be one of the best ones in a long time.

 6 goals for England, great Wales v USA match, Argentina lose to Saudi Arabia and now Japan beat Germany and we are only a few days in.

Agreed, it's good spectator sport so far. France pretty good too.