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Flaws in existing outdoor products/Products you wish existed (Read 4529 times)

Finn1999

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Hey guys, I’m currently studying product design at uni. I’m doing a project at the moment focusing on outdoor gear (climbing, hiking, skiing etc).

Im trying to improve/develop upon existing products or create a completely new product.

I’m asking peoples opinions at the moment for my research so:

What things do you find really annoying about the gear you use and are there any new pieces of gear you think would be useful?

If you have any ideas/suggestions reply in thread or fill in the google form here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSczcm0l2BG7Mzg186rVi5T-NOEZF2FwFxq9Mlo_Sxd9ecLWFg/viewform?usp=sf_link

Thanks a lot!

duncan

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I think there is more to come from bouldering mats that use a deflating aircell structure to absorb force. They should - in theory - be bigger, lighter and longer-lasting than current foam sandwich designs.

Bradders

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Have a look at the various threads about pad recommendations on here, sure there'll be lots of product flaws highlighted.

Oldmanmatt

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I once pinched the folding, wired, hood from my kid’s baby carrier and cable tied it to my Bergan for a particularly damp trek and wondered why this wasn’t a “thing”.

Then the wind got up.

Still, always meant to revisit the basic idea.

SA Chris

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Duma

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Knee pads and crack gloves made just of leather, ie no rubber. To provide scrape/bruise/pain protection but retain friction quality equivalent to skin.

SA Chris

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available in any S&M shop :)

Dac

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I suspect that as much as anything the issue with all leather crack gloves and knee pads is that to make them out of leather that is sufficiently thick and strong, yet still flexible and pliable, would make them too expensive compared to those already available.

I think the world of bouldering mats is ripe for innovation. Either a mat with a therm-a-rest style inflatable middle layer (equipped with some kind of blow-out valve for when you fall on it). Or a mat with some kind of battery operated pump to keep it inflated (a mini version of the kind stunt people fall onto).

When carrying multiple mats, both in a car and on one's back, it tends to be the size and bulk that becomes the limiting factor, rather annoying when most of what you are hauling about is air.

SA Chris

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Wasn't there an inflatable pad available a while back?

I think something with a more pliable bottom layer would be more useful; something that can mould more to the ground surface; a gel or bead based layer maybe.

sherlock

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The Edelrid Balance did exactly this, kind of beanbag attached to a thinner layer of foam on top.
It looked bizarre but actually worked quite well as a base with another pad on top. Works well at coastal venues where it's pebbly/ rocky but is utterly shite on level areas.
Big advantage is it's very light so you can throw it down without upsetting Shark.

teestub

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Interesting that the Edelrid one was light, the two that I had seen in person (Flashed and Snap) were heavier per m2 of coverage than their foamy counterparts

Edit oh wow that’s a totally different design choice to the other ones! https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/edelrid-balance-crash-pad/

Fultonius

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Knee pads and crack gloves made just of leather, ie no rubber. To provide scrape/bruise/pain protection but retain friction quality equivalent to skin.

https://zenandtheartofclimbing.com/grade-vii-g7-hand-jam-crack-gloves/

Pricey but good. Had a set in the bugs, pretty decent.

cheque

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edshakey

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Knee pads and crack gloves made just of leather, ie no rubber. To provide scrape/bruise/pain protection but retain friction quality equivalent to skin.

Maybe the BD ones? They're white, which makes me think definitely not rubber, and fairly thin. I've not climbed in them, only tried them on in a shop, but they're on my radar as one that doesn't feel "cheaty" while still protecting your hands.

People who've tried them may want to dispute any of those points!

SA Chris

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The Edelrid Balance did exactly this, kind of beanbag attached to a thinner layer of foam on top.
It looked bizarre but actually worked quite well as a base with another pad on top. Works well at coastal venues where it's pebbly/ rocky but is utterly shite on level areas.
Big advantage is it's very light so you can throw it down without upsetting Shark.

Looked perfect until you told me about the lack of whump factor. Can't see it for sale anywhere though.

sherlock

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I bought one from Banana Fingers about 4 years ago, never seen another one like it.
I suspect anyone with an appropriate skill level could knock one up quite easily.It really is just a bean bag stitched under a thin top layer of foam.The beanbag is in thick polythene inside another waterproof cover and it would be awful messy to clean up if it burst....
If anyone fancies a go, I can email various close pics.

ben

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I first read the title as "Flaws in existing outdoor products you wish existed" which brought visions of rockboots with hard plastic soles and gas stoves that didn't produce any heat..

but anyway one product I wish existed is the 'variable insulation' jacket/sleeping bag, so rather than having summer, spring and winter sleeping bags, you just have one you can vary.  My original (bad) idea was some kind of string system on a down bag which would allow you to compress the baffles to reduce the down lofting (even harder to do on a jacket!), but perhaps these days there's some synthetic smart material one could control via an app  :-\

i.munro

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Some way of removing chalk without damaging the rock.  Brushes and even water don't seem to work any more. Not sure why but  I assume more components are being added by the manufacturers.
i have no idea what might work though.

chriss

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Wasn't there an inflatable pad available a while back?

I think something with a more pliable bottom layer would be more useful; something that can mould more to the ground surface; a gel or bead based layer maybe.

8a.nu did an inflatable pad a few year's back. Think it was very expensive and very heavy. We looked into buying one as pads are big & we only had small cars back in the day.

mrjonathanr

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I first read the title as "Flaws in existing outdoor products you wish existed" which brought visions of rockboots with hard plastic soles and gas stoves that didn't produce any heat..

but anyway one product I wish existed is the 'variable insulation' jacket/sleeping bag, so rather than having summer, spring and winter sleeping bags, you just have one you can vary.  My original (bad) idea was some kind of string system on a down bag which would allow you to compress the baffles to reduce the down lofting (even harder to do on a jacket!), but perhaps these days there's some synthetic smart material one could control via an app  :-\

A spontaneously combusting synthetic jacket for really cold days; single use only.

edshakey

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A spontaneously combusting synthetic jacket for really cold days; single use only.
Is the combustion the method of keeping you warm?

mrjonathanr

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Yes, like one of those old, petrol filled hand warmers you used to get for incinerating duvet pockets, just a bit more predictable.

jwi

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8a.nu did an inflatable pad a few year's back. Think it was very expensive and very heavy. We looked into buying one as pads are big & we only had small cars back in the day.

The pad was totally on brand: really dangerous and caused quite a lot of harm.

MischaHY

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Knee pads and crack gloves made just of leather, ie no rubber. To provide scrape/bruise/pain protection but retain friction quality equivalent to skin.

Maybe the BD ones? They're white, which makes me think definitely not rubber, and fairly thin. I've not climbed in them, only tried them on in a shop, but they're on my radar as one that doesn't feel "cheaty" while still protecting your hands.

People who've tried them may want to dispute any of those points!

They're definitely rubber and definitely cheaty in the sense that they're by far the best crack glove I've ever used. The only one on the market I haven't tried so far is the wideboyz and G7 ones because they've been so hard to get hold of but I've tried all the rest and the BD gloves easily piss all over them. Very good sensitivity, very thin, no friction blisters, no noticeable slippage... The thumb coverage is also totally ace which really helps in baggy ringlocks.

SA Chris

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I suspect anyone with an appropriate skill level could knock one up quite easily.It really is just a bean bag stitched under a thin top layer of foam.The beanbag is in thick polythene inside another waterproof cover 

Alternative could be a tubular design like these spill absorbing socks (only a bit more robust). Pack it into the gaps. https://www.screwfix.com/p/lubetech-superior-chemical-socks-1200mm-5-pack/48813

edshakey

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They're definitely rubber and definitely cheaty in the sense that they're by far the best crack glove I've ever used. The only one on the market I haven't tried so far is the wideboyz and G7 ones because they've been so hard to get hold of but I've tried all the rest and the BD gloves easily piss all over them. Very good sensitivity, very thin, no friction blisters, no noticeable slippage... The thumb coverage is also totally ace which really helps in baggy ringlocks.

Well now I'm torn... might just lean into the cheaty-ness and get them! Maybe i'll be able to just keep living in denial and pretend the atypical rubber colour automatically makes them ethically superior

Johnny Brown

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Products I wish still existed:



SA Chris

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I bought a pair of new design Guides recently, and even though I was told to go up a half size more than usual, they are still visibly smaller than my old pair.

Will Hunt

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A pair of approach shoes that is good for scrambling around on rocks, reasonably lightweight (not like a clumpy walking trainer/mini-walking boot thing), AND waterproof. Must have strong heel loops for clipping to back of harness.

teestub

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duncan

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They're definitely rubber and definitely cheaty in the sense that they're by far the best crack glove I've ever used. The only one on the market I haven't tried so far is the wideboyz and G7 ones because they've been so hard to get hold of but I've tried all the rest and the BD gloves easily piss all over them. Very good sensitivity, very thin, no friction blisters, no noticeable slippage... The thumb coverage is also totally ace which really helps in baggy ringlocks.

I also like them a lot. BD's first rock climbing product for about 20 years that is markedly better than the competition. They were a tight fit using the palm girth/palm length measure per the size guide, chunky finger joints don't help, but do stretch a tiny bit.



Fultonius

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They're definitely rubber and definitely cheaty in the sense that they're by far the best crack glove I've ever used. The only one on the market I haven't tried so far is the wideboyz and G7 ones because they've been so hard to get hold of but I've tried all the rest and the BD gloves easily piss all over them. Very good sensitivity, very thin, no friction blisters, no noticeable slippage... The thumb coverage is also totally ace which really helps in baggy ringlocks.

I also like them a lot. BD's first rock climbing product for about 20 years that is markedly better than the competition. They were a tight fit using the palm girth/palm length measure per the size guide, chunky finger joints don't help, but do stretch a tiny bit.

I tried all sizes of BD on in the shop and they all felt more restrictive than the G7 - maybe fat fingers doesn't help?  My mate James had the BDs, and found the velcro regularly came loose when doing thin hands as it faces the wrong way.

Downsides to the G7 are that they take a bit of bedding in to get the finger loops to soften up, and the thumb loop can get baggy with age and have a slight chance of hooking carabiners if you clip with your thumb in the "grab crab" stle, rather than the "place index finger" style (if you know what I mean...).  Also, no thumb pro at the knuckle for fists, but even after a solid 30m pitch on sunshine, it was my shins (long story) that were suffering, not my fists (to be fair I found most of it easier at cupped hands than proper fists, but that's my big hands!.


cheque

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a slight chance of hooking carabiners

I’ve done this. Not with BD gloves, with Ocun ones. I think it was more a freak accident than a flaw in the design though. I don’t recommend it.

I feel like a right punter wearing jamming gloves, they make most sizes feel harder to me, I feel like they encourage me to thrash my hands around in the crack in a way I never do without and they also seem to sometimes create a weird pump that I’ve never had without them, like the strap on the wrists has trapped the blood in my hands or something  :sick: .

They’re brilliant for wide fist jams though so I still take them out just in case  :lol: .

duncan

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They're definitely rubber and definitely cheaty in the sense that they're by far the best crack glove I've ever used. The only one on the market I haven't tried so far is the wideboyz and G7 ones because they've been so hard to get hold of but I've tried all the rest and the BD gloves easily piss all over them. Very good sensitivity, very thin, no friction blisters, no noticeable slippage... The thumb coverage is also totally ace which really helps in baggy ringlocks.

I also like them a lot. BD's first rock climbing product for about 20 years that is markedly better than the competition. They were a tight fit using the palm girth/palm length measure per the size guide, chunky finger joints don't help, but do stretch a tiny bit.

I tried all sizes of BD on in the shop and they all felt more restrictive than the G7 - maybe fat fingers doesn't help?  My mate James had the BDs, and found the velcro regularly came loose when doing thin hands as it faces the wrong way.

Downsides to the G7 are that they take a bit of bedding in to get the finger loops to soften up, and the thumb loop can get baggy with age and have a slight chance of hooking carabiners if you clip with your thumb in the "grab crab" stle, rather than the "place index finger" style (if you know what I mean...).  Also, no thumb pro at the knuckle for fists, but even after a solid 30m pitch on sunshine, it was my shins (long story) that were suffering, not my fists (to be fair I found most of it easier at cupped hands than proper fists, but that's my big hands!.

I've not tried the G7s as they are mail order only here and at $80 + $45 postage + import duty I'd want them to fit like a Saville Row suit and take at least a grade off jamming cracks!

I thought the BD thumb protector was a game-changer; the wrist closure looks fragile but has held up so far. The finger loops were tight at the start for me but have given a bit. Like shoes, try before you buy if you can.

Fultonius

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Yeah, I was lucky to be able to try both on in Squamish. No way I would have bought them online here without trying on.

 

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