[petejh]

There's a .75kg difference between my stronger and weaker arm.

[sdm]

How even I am depends on the hold I use.

On the lattice rung, I take off 5kg on my left hand but 9.5kg on my right.

On the Beastmaker middle slot, it is 4.25kg on my left and 4.75kg on my right. 

I'm not sure if the difference is due to the lattice rung being more open handed and the beastmaker being more positive or whether maybe the difference is down to my shoulders.

The two lattice rungs I have used have a central pulley quite far back from the rung,making the hang a bit side on and bringing in a slight element of compression. The 3 beastmakers I have access to all have pulleys close to the board approximately in line with the outside slots, this puts you in a more front on position as you hang.

[gme]

1.5kg difference for me between left an right.

Lower slots on BM1k -

2 arm max hangs +37.5kg @83kg. 120.5kg total.
1 arm LH - 18kg
1 arm RH - 16.5kg
avg 17.25kg

120.5/65.75 = 1.83

I always though my shoulders were the reason i couldn't dead hand one arm that well but the score i get as a percentage of max suggests other wise.

Hopefully this means if i increase the two handed load to 141kg or lose 18kg i will get there as i am not a fan of one arm hangs as i often seem to tweak my neck/shoulder doing them. Hanging one arm off a bar feels brutal at my age.

[Franco]

If we're talking about hanging edges, surely there is a difference between two - and one - arm hangs in the way fingers are loaded? You pull straight down on one hand - not the case with two. You're almost doing a very slight compression when hanging with two hands, which is surely going to introduce a bit of lateral force on your grip and make it harder..

[peewee]

 Finally got around to doing a 2 handed max.

All on a 20mm edge for 10s

One arm:
Right arm just bw
Left arm +3kg

Two arm:

Bw (57.5) +65kg / 112%

[andy_e]

Bw (57.5)

Fuck's sake.

[Duma]

Which 20mm edge is this on peewee? Think lettuce refer to their edge as 20mm but its obv very rounded. Wonder how the discrepancy changes with hold size

[jwi]

n = 10, and a convenience sample, which seems to be acceptable in sport "science"



The stronger individuals have lower bilateral deficit (in fact bilateral facilitation), as predicted by the literature

So e.g. Stu, who has the best reported relative strength (of 10% above bodyweight) has also the highest bilateral facilitation.

[Stu Littlefair]

Interesting. I guess that's consistent with the reasonable expectation that a lot of two-arm dead hanging improves both fingerstrength and bilateral index (assuming people who dead hang a lot mostly do two-armed hangs).

[jwi]

Yes, I agree completely.

[peewee]

Which 20mm edge is this on peewee? Think lettuce refer to their edge as 20mm but its obv very rounded. Wonder how the discrepancy changes with hold size

20mm edges on the crusher matrix, they aren't as positive as the 20 on the bm 2k

[Duma]

Cheers. sorry to be dense, but which is the 20 mm edge on the bm2k? middle bottom?

[standard]

hope not, because it's a lot bigger than 20mm

[96alex]

Finally got around to directly comparing my one arm vs two arm max hangs and figured I'd post my results since this thread was pretty helpful for getting some perspective.

Bodyweight ~ 65kg, 64.5kg after a good shit but probably closer to 65kg so I'll use that.

One arm bm 2k bottom middle edge (22mm?): -2kg for 7 seconds with a pulley, on both arms. Not sure there's much difference left vs right, or at least it wasn't measurable with the limited weights I had.

Two arms bm 1k bottom outside edges (18mm?): +53kg for 7 seconds

Giving me a bilateral index of -6.35, apparently. The limiting factor in my two arm hangs is my arm and shoulder strength, it feels incredibly tweaky above 50kg, so I'm curious as to whether I can get closer to 0 with some general arm strengthening. Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.

[96alex]

Oh yeah, 118/63 = 1.873
Forgot to add that

[Duma]

Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.

I'd say those are significantly more than "slightly" different, be interested to see how much it changes tested on the same holds

[96alex]

Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.

I'd say those are significantly more than "slightly" different, be interested to see how much it changes tested on the same holds

A fair statement, the 2k edge is significantly more positive. My thinking is that would would make the bilateral deficit more significant, since my one arm hangs should be stronger on the better edge - but if that's so then my relatively low index shows that it's not making a massive impact.

In training over the previous weeks I've found that one arm hangs on the 2k bottom edge and the 1k 18 mms are comparable, with a similar feeling of difficulty regardless of hold used. I reckon there might only be half a kilo in difference between the two holds tops. Something to test for sure, but my experience has been that the two feel similar in a half crimp.

[Bradders]

Just wanted to revive this thread - lots of interesting results here and I'd just like to clarify what good looks like with this.

Is it simply a comparison metric, i.e. to compare between climbers and thus give an indication of what each should be working on? Or is there an ideal standard to work towards?

For my own part, my numbers are:

BW - 70kg
Two arm on a 19mm edge - +35kg for 10s = 105kg total
One arm (LH slightly better than RH) on BM2k middle edge (21mm?) = -7.5kg for 10s

105/62.5 = 1.68

Only just worked this out but, surprisingly, I take it this means I am relatively better on one arm than two? Or am bang on average? Very strange if so as I've always thought I was terrible on one arm!

[abarro81]

You have to use the same edge for both hangs which it sounds like you haven't done?

[Bradders]

Does 2mm really make that much difference?

[teestub]

Does 2mm really make that much difference?

Can you hang for the same length on the 8mm and 6mm micros? 

[abarro81]

Radius makes a huge difference too,and any angle. At home mid 2 on the BM 2k little edges is maximal for me (5-10s).. at the foundry it's a bit easier.. at the works last time I was there I could do repeaters.. I think unless you're using literally the same edge it's not worth bothering comparing

[jwi]

Radius makes a huge difference too,and any angle.[...] I think unless you're using literally the same edge it's not worth bothering comparing

^ This! I'd like that the type of wood also makes a big difference. Birch is a lot harder to hang than pine e.g.

[Bradders]

Can you hang for the same length on the 8mm and 6mm micros? 

Haha fair enough, didn't realise it had to be quite so exact. Surely it can't be that far off though? Especially as in terms of radius the 19mm edge I'm using feels identical to the bottom middle beastmaker edge.

Anyway, regardless of those values can anyone answer these questions?

- What does good looks like with this?

- Is it simply a comparison metric, i.e. to compare between climbers and thus give an indication of what each should be working on?

- Or is there an ideal standard to work towards?

[teestub]

- Remus noted from the Lettuce data that 1.7 was the average from the people they had tested. No one (as far as I'm aware) has correlated this data against max grade.
- JWI noted from the literature that stronger people were likely to have less of a bilateral deficit, backed up here to some extent by several of the v strong climbers having bilateral facilitation.