[spidermonkey09]

I think that is entirely down to how sensitive or otherwise one is to be honest. I would happily take the piss out of, and have happily been subject to piss taking from, people who I do not know well. Frankly a lot of the time that's a mark of acceptance.

[RobK]

A better example is when people ask at sport climbing crags whether a hold is in or not. Like, yeah, duh!

Sorry, way way off topic (have enjoyed reading this exchange btw), but I'm not so sure I agree with this. I used to have the same view, but have come across quite a few sport routes where you can have radically different experiences dependent on sequence and, if a particular sequence defines a route, then if you avoid it by using say holds a little off to the side, but still within reach of the bolts, then I think an argument can be made you haven't 'done' the route.

Not the best example of this, but prudent as I literally asked you this the other week(!), but I would have a had a very different experience on the top of Rated PG if I'd just used the Consenting jug. Now the top of RPG isn't exactly a route defining sequence, hence why this isn't the best example, but I don't think the line of whether holds are in or not on a sport route is as clear as you make out.

[stone]

I can see that this is not just about how well you know someone but also about how well they fit in and intentions etc.

I guess you're not saying it can be a mark of acceptance to take the piss out of someone when you don't want to hang out with them unless they change?

At the most, that seems to me a qualified offer of potential acceptance.

[Fiend]

Dingdong do you need some soothing ointment applied anywhere?? I'm sure Will wasn't referring to any boulderswithcarlos in particular....

[Fiend]

I think disparaging someone is a sort of dictating. Humans are social animals. Being welcome in wider society is crucial to most people. Solitary confinement is unbearable for many/most people. I think disparaging what someone chooses to do is a sort of social exclusion. That's why I think it is important to stick to being positive about our own choices and not to stray into disparaging other peoples' choices.

Is it different when you're disparaging the majority, as awful as they are?!

[RobK]

Duplicate post, sorry!

[stone]

I think disparaging someone is a sort of dictating. Humans are social animals. Being welcome in wider society is crucial to most people. Solitary confinement is unbearable for many/most people. I think disparaging what someone chooses to do is a sort of social exclusion. That's why I think it is important to stick to being positive about our own choices and not to stray into disparaging other peoples' choices.

Is it different when you're disparaging the majority, as awful as they are?!

It's less harmful when they are in the majority and confident in themselves etc but still not great IMO.

[Dingdong]

Dingdong do you need some soothing ointment applied anywhere?? I'm sure Will wasn't referring to any boulderswithcarlos in particular....

I think you two are the ones needing the soothing ointment seeing as you spend 99% of your lives crying about something or other on here while everyone else is out enjoying themselves 

[Fiend]

On-topic posts since Will rightly raised this horrifying issue:

DingDong: CHARACTERS 1759 WORDS 316
Fiend: CHARACTERS 2039 WORDS 343

Hardly a massive discrepancy, plus I've got the man-flu, a tweaked knee, and no I'm not out enjoying myself bouldering on damp grit or whatever.

[andy moles]

Imagine you've pulled up to a crag, parked neatly, are packing your pads ready to walk in, and someone trots along the road next to you, stops right in front of you, and does a massive rancid, post-curry, steaming dump on the road, that whilst it doesn't get in the way of the walk-in at all, doesn't actually impinge on your climbing plans, is done right in full, unavoidable view, so the manure-fountain is indelibly seared into your retina...

This is tremendous. I really hope this is not an exaggeration Fiend, and that that vividly rendered scenario really is analogous to how you feel about overhyped style trangressions.

[Fiend]

Errrrrr.........

[webbo]

Is this another of Dans threads about the lack of romance in modern climbing.

[User deactivated.]

No it's a serious point that the sort of behaviour in question in theory doesn't physically impinge on one's personal enjoyment, but in climbing as a community and publicly shared activity as Will highlighted, it is still unavoidably repulsive. I suppose if people did those revolting things and kept them entirely private it would be less awful. A bit like the weirdo in my metaphor going for a shit on an entirely different and secluded country lane that no-one ever saw.

Both you and Will have put up shit first ascents and sprayed about it on your social media accounts  maybe before talking smack you could delete your Instagram and Facebook and UKB accounts 

 

[Fiend]

I dunno webbo there seems to be a fair bit of romance on the go....

[webbo]

I dunno webbo there seems to be a fair bit of romance on the go....

Well you are certainly my go to Romantic author. I never knew how injuries and failing on stuff could be portrayed so lovingly.😂😂😂

[Dingdong]

I dunno webbo there seems to be a fair bit of romance on the go....

What's wrong Matt, feeling left out of the love mate?

[stone]

[Stone, to reflect your argument back to you:
Imagine a hypothetical climber who valued all the things I mentioned in my previous post, and who would turn up to a crag and find like-minded individuals and a community that they felt they belonged to. Can you then imagine how they might feel marginalised within that community as it changes over time?

Yes I can imagine how they might feel marginalised. That's why I think it is important to be friendly and respectful towards them and their perhaps now esoteric way of doing things. If someone wants to climb at say Raven Tor not using chalk and yo-yo style or whatever- then roll with it and make them feel welcome as with everyone else.

People can feel a welcome part of a diverse community. Conformity isn't what is needed for social cohesion IMO.

[mrjonathanr]

Conformity isn't what is needed for social cohesion IMO.

Can't believe that the validity of non-conformity requires defending on a climbing forum. Absurd that this even seems reasonable to debate tbh

[SA Chris]

UKB, don't ever change.

The 3 highest mountains in the UK has an obvious attraction

Point of order, they aren't the 3 highest mountains in the UK. By the most commonly used prominence thresholds, they are the 1st, 57th and 184th* highest mountains. Since when did mountains care about arbitrary political borders?

*if anyone's feeling really pedantic, you may wish to review this.

Doing a 3 Bs challenge has less carbon footprint* though, so what's the point?

*Or possibly more actually, depending on where you travel from (esp London).

[JamieG]

At the risk of re-starting a bun-fight . . .

I've been mulling this for a few days and something that keeps bugging me is that the idea that all these activities are equally arbitrary and therefore any 'value' judgement is meaningless. I find this slightly disingenuous. We all definitely have a rough sense of how arbitrary a challenge is and mostly tend to prefer ones with less 'rules'. To give a ridiculous example: the 100m sprint is at it's heart very simple. But if you started saying I personally prefer to run 99m with a flipper on my foot and a high heel on the other, then that is obviously more arbitrary as it has more 'rules' and to a certain extent has lesser value. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't enjoy it, but just recognise that is is definitely more arbitrary/niche. (I say this as someone how has developed some lovely lines (I think) and some grotty ones too!)

The same is true for climbing. I think we all like climbs that are clean lines, with few/no eliminate holds, nice moves, (probably stand starts) etc. But to say that all boulders/climbing challenges are born equal rings a little hollow to me.

[Moo]

Agree with jamie there, the more obvious the challenge and the fewer the rules, the better the quality of the climb in my book.

[SA Chris]

Yup, lead 50 VSs in a day or climb 1000 m of vert is more simplistic and more appealing (to me anyway), than say climbing all the Brown and / or Whillans routes in the Eastern Peak in a day, alternating leads.

[Aussiegav]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/want-to-hang-out-tonight-fvw32bsmv

Be like Harry Styles.

[SA Chris]

Great, does that mean more people at the wall dressed like whacky aunts?

https://people.com/style/harry-styles-best-fashion-moments/

[Paul B]

The new Apple Watch advert features someone answering a call, mid (indoor) route. I bet that person would be popular on a Tue or Thur evening.