[Carliios]

Someone mentioned this could be an interesting thread on the “should we document everything?” Thread so here we go. What are some “classic” boulders with arbitrary rules that would mean they’re not classics by todays standards

My two are:

Green Traverse - certain holds in and others not

The Rib - no foot ledge allowed

[andy moles]

Can't you just do the Green Traverse with everything in? It's been a while...

[Droyd]

There's probably a distinction to be made between problems that arguably shouldn't be classics due to rules, and problems that are classics in spite of these rules (but would perhaps be questioned were they put up today).

The strict version of Green Traverse likely falls into the first category as it's not really very good and I reckon anything that eliminates a specific technique is shit, although I was surprised by how satisfying the pop up from the rail was when I finally got around to doing it. I reckon worth a star for that plus historical interest. The Green Traverse as it's climbed 99% of the time is really a different entity I think, and I think is one of those solidly two-star mid-grade grit traverses that are popular because of social media, their grade, the ease of working the moves, and their location at popular crags, rather than having quality relating to movement, line, or rock quality - Steep Traverse, Mark's Roof, Zippy's, Beretta (lime but I still think it's inexplicably popular).

T-Crack seems like a good example of the latter category, in that it eliminates both a hold (the chip) and part of a separate block and is still pretty indisputably a classic. Is Sheep Shifter at Cave Dale considered a classic (most people seem to rate it highly in the context of Peak Lime, but maybe that's still somewhat myopic)? If so I would wager that eyebrows would be raised if it were written up today as 'three-star board-style climbing on lovely, ergonomic holds but eliminating the massive plinth', at least if it were claimed by someone not possessing a solid CV of FAs.

[Carliios]

Can't you just do the Green Traverse with everything in? It's been a while...

The ear hold near the top is eliminated and you also can’t use heels for the proper strict tick!

[tommytwotone]

What are some “classic” boulders with arbitrary rules...

You HAVE been to Almscliff haven't you?!

[andy moles]

Sounds like, given its location, the Green Traverse has a lot to answer for in establishing a precedent for problems with illogical rules being assigned classic status.

Seems particularly bizarre when, if I remember correctly (and I may not), doing it in a non-eliminate way is a pretty decent problem and not even that much easier.

[r-man]

The Rib - no foot ledge allowed

I've never seen this rule before. Seems odd to turn it into an eliminate. You can do it with or without the ledge, without is only a little harder. The crux is the top move.

[Fiend]

What are some “classic” boulders with arbitrary rules that would mean they’re not classics by todays standards

Applied Stress, Burbage South 


Also I did the Green Traverse 15 years ago and just followed the easiest line I could manage. That might have been dropping down to a crimp rail because the top was too slopey or maybe not. It was quite good but hardly a grit classic, just kinda thuggy. Honourary Caley up the slope also has a rule to stay off the sidepulls next to the crack, but that was ace. I did it in conditions so cold and crisp my mouth was drying out on the walk-up and at one point i cut loose on it (on a slab?!).

[Carliios]

What are some “classic” boulders with arbitrary rules that would mean they’re not classics by todays standards

Applied Stress, Burbage South 

Im honoured you consider it a classic already fiend 

[Fiend]

Only by yesterday's standards, whatever they were 

[spidermonkey09]

Blockbuster, as mentioned earlier.

Maybe Ben's Wall at Robin Hoods Stride? Haven't done it so no idea if avoiding the arete feels stupid.

[danm]

Can't you just do the Green Traverse with everything in? It's been a while...

The ear hold near the top is eliminated and you also can’t use heels for the proper strict tick!

Be interesting to know the provenance of these rules, because that's what I was told when I was trying it, but I was told that was bollocks and to use what I wanted by an onlooker, who turned out to be Martin Veale. So go figure!

[remus]

Can't you just do the Green Traverse with everything in? It's been a while...

The ear hold near the top is eliminated and you also can’t use heels for the proper strict tick!

Be interesting to know the provenance of these rules, because that's what I was told when I was trying it, but I was told that was bollocks and to use what I wanted by an onlooker, who turned out to be Martin Veale. So go figure!

Shark is the resident expert on the matter, hopefully he'll be along shortly to explain all in intimate detail.

[Will Hunt]

The words "classic" and "testpiece" are often used interchangeably but they shouldn't be. It should be obvious which are which.

What's the arbitrary rule on Blockbuster? It's a jump start, so is the issue with how many pads people jump off? I don't think it makes a huge difference does it?

[Bradders]

It's in the name of Blockbuster; originally climbed by people stepping off a block, this was then removed by Ron who did it via the jump start, obviously sans pads. So yeah it's pretty important how many pads you start off considering it was originally done from the floor.

Not to mention that I've witnessed people stacking sufficient pads to just pull on without the jump.

And obviously all of these approaches are inferior to the non-jump version, which involves an amazing dyno (I've done the move once, but then fell off!  ).

So it's a good example of a rules based classic problem that's inferior to the natural method.

[steveri]

Green Traverse I can't get too excited by, it just seems like 'go from there to there' to me. Can't remember using heels, but only because I don't think they'd been invented. Next the thorny problem of sit starts, don't tell anyone but a lot of problems make more sense with very low starts rather than cheek meets terra firma.

[User deactivated.]

Blockbuster might not even sneak into the top 5 problems within a 10 metre radius of Zoo York. Not that ive managed to do many of those problems...

[remus]

T-crack at cratcliffe always feels like a weird one to me. Probably just bitter because no one told me the chip was out when I first did it.

[CapitalistPunter]

T-crack at cratcliffe always feels like a weird one to me. Probably just bitter because no one told me the chip was out when I first did it.

Was it chipped in before or after the problem was established?

[CapitalistPunter]

One problem that come to mind is Tsunami at Rubicon, which forces you to match a pinch before moving out right to a crimp... a small slot hold is also eliminated.

Some people say that on Full Power at Gardoms you arnet allowed to put your heel on while sitting beneath the problem, and that you need to pull on and then place it.

Bullshit pedantry like this is best left for the schoolroom.

[abarro81]

I don't think I've ever thought of green trav, the rib or tsunami as eliminates. Tsunami I would consider as a non eliminate problem where there's the option of a "historical sequence" if you want it. I certainly used all holds for that, dancing fish, and press low left. To me eliminates make sense when they create an entirely new/different problem that wouldn't exist otherwise, rather than just a slightly worse sequence on an obvious problem. Having said that, I've always followed the rules at crag x despite their stupidity so I'm clearly inconsistent...

[Carliios]

I don't think I've ever thought of green trav, the rib or tsunami as eliminates. Tsunami I would consider as a non eliminate problem where there's the option of a "historical sequence" if you want it. I certainly used all holds for that, dancing fish, and press low left. To me eliminates make sense when they create an entirely new/different problem that wouldn't exist otherwise, rather than just a slightly worse sequence on an obvious problem. Having said that, I've always followed the rules at crag x despite their stupidity so I'm clearly inconsistent...

Green Trav in rockfax literally has each hold labelled and you’re told which holds you can use? You’re not “allowed” to use heels and in the rockfax guide the ear hold near the top that lots of people use isn’t labelled which assumes it’s eliminated. Maybe I just read that wrong but I’ve also been told that in person by locals before I moved up.

[andy moles]

My old Vertebrate Peak District Bouldering guidebook makes no mention of any such fuckery, it just says

From the rounded blob on the arete traverse left displaying as little technique as possible.

[Carliios]

My old Vertebrate Peak District Bouldering guidebook makes no mention of any such fuckery, it just says

From the rounded blob on the arete traverse left displaying as little technique as possible.

Someone must know where and when all these rules came about? 

[spidermonkey09]

Green Trav in rockfax literally has each hold labelled and you’re told which holds you can use? You’re not “allowed” to use heels and in the rockfax guide the ear hold near the top that lots of people use isn’t labelled which assumes it’s eliminated. Maybe I just read that wrong but I’ve also been told that in person by locals before I moved up.

You've read it wrong. Look again. It doesn't prescribe any rules for Green Trav other than the starting hold. All the labelled holds are for the other eliminates around it. It also doesn't mention heels.