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More accurate power-to-weight handicap calculation. (Read 7293 times)

Mostly_Inanimate_Beans

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5 weeks plus another 2 on codeine, but still haven't got my appetite back
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 10:45:33 pm by Mostly_Inanimate_Beans »

Fiend

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What did you do to the talus?? That's a lot of morphine, the longest I've been on it was more like 5 days!

Mostly_Inanimate_Beans

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Broke it into a couple of pieces and laterally dislocated the subtalar joint. Was only on it full time as such for the first 3 weeks then just at night to help me sleep after that

SA Chris

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Stay away from those places where you broke it! :)

Hope it heals OK.

SA Chris

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I always wonder how people monitor their leg size. I have gone from no running at all to doing about 1000km a year since my late 40s, and noticed almost no difference in my legs; still reasonably large thighs and calves like spindles.

webbo

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When I had my shoulder repaired and was unable to cycle outside. I would use the turbo for an hour one day and walk for 3 or 4 hours he next day. I noticed that my cycling shorts got tighter on my thighs.

36chambers

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I always wonder how people monitor their leg size. I have gone from no running at all to doing about 1000km a year since my late 40s, and noticed almost no difference in my legs; still reasonably large thighs and calves like spindles.

I've owned my trusty suit for 12 years, wearing it at least once a year (pre-pandemic). A few weeks ago, the day before my friend's wedding, I thought I'd pop it on to see how it looks and lo and behold the trousers are now skin tight around my thighs and I couldn't safely do a full squat in them :(

SA Chris

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what have you done to make the change?

SA Chris

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When I had my shoulder repaired and was unable to cycle outside. I would use the turbo for an hour one day and walk for 3 or 4 hours he next day. I noticed that my cycling shorts got tighter on my thighs.

So was that an increase in activity?

Wellsy

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Ah sorry I thought you were saying you would burn them off at climbing!  Yeah of course you could probably lift more than them, it doesn't really have anything to do with climbing does it.

In reality, I wouldn't back myself despite having a size advantage over most. I'd expect some of the springy comp beasts in particular could put up some big numbers if they tried. Not because they train them but simply because they are mutants.

I reckon a 70kg comp climber mutant who's never done a backsquat might at a guess put out 120kgs the first time (and that'd be pretty bloody impressive) and I imagine you can probably backsquat considerably more than that?

webbo

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When I had my shoulder repaired and was unable to cycle outside. I would use the turbo for an hour one day and walk for 3 or 4 hours he next day. I noticed that my cycling shorts got tighter on my thighs.

So was that an increase in activity?
No I think the walking gave me more muscle bulk. I would have riding for 4 hours one day, climbing the next with some occasional weight training thrown in. Iíve found over time running does add any muscle bulk, cycling and walking do.
However this is just on my thighs my calf muscles are way thin no matter what I do.

Wellsy

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Only reliable way of developing big calf muscles as an adult involves chatting to a dodgy looking bloke at the powerlifting gym...

SA Chris

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Iíve found over time running does add any muscle bulk, cycling and walking do.


does or doesn't?

webbo

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Opps Doesnít.

Mostly_Inanimate_Beans

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Only reliable way of developing big calf muscles as an adult involves chatting to a dodgy looking bloke at the powerlifting gym...

Reckon he's got anything that will do the opposite? Asking for a friend

Wellsy

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Not that I know of. They reckon your calves are at about 80/90% of your genetic max through just being generally alive and walking, only way to get em to disappear would be to not walk. At all.

webbo

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Only reliable way of developing big calf muscles as an adult involves chatting to a dodgy looking bloke at the powerlifting gym...

Reckon he's got anything that will do the opposite? Asking for a friend
8 weeks in an air boot with no weight bearing.

Mostly_Inanimate_Beans

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Only reliable way of developing big calf muscles as an adult involves chatting to a dodgy looking bloke at the powerlifting gym...

Reckon he's got anything that will do the opposite? Asking for a friend
8 weeks in an air boot with no weight bearing.
Not eager to repeat that just yet

mark s

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Yup, this dead horse again  :tumble:

I've been thinking a bit more about power-to-weight again, and also about those occasional beasts who aren't actually crimp waifs and can still haul themselves up things.

It's occurred to me, in a blindingly obvious way, that the issue is not just about power-to-weight-per-height, but also about the distribution of that weight AND the functionality of that weight towards climbing. Crudely, any weight that is distributed towards climbing-relevant muscles is likely to be more beneficial and less inhibitive than weight distributed elsewhere (on anything except slabs). Equally crudely, that roughly corresponds to the upper body, upper torso, arms etc (again, on anything except slabs).

That distribution factor could be broadly tested thus:

Get a climber to lie on a pivot point (foam roller etc) with arms out-stretched above their head, and find the point along their body where they are finely balanced.

>> If that point is further UP their body, then they have more weight distribution towards their upper torso and arms, and for a typical physically progressive climber, this is likely to be in climbing-relevant muscles. Therefore their weight will be LESS of a handicap.

>> If that point is further DOWN their body, then they have more weight distribution towards the lower body, legs in particular, and, and that is likely to be in areas that are less useful for physically hard climbing. Therefore their weight will be MORE of a handicap.


(YES as always there are a million objections and potential nitpicks to this. What is someone has fat arms?? Really heavy bones in their hands?? What about The Dawes?? (spoiler, he didn't make a name for himself climbing the burliest board style problems around) What about weight around the midriff that will be finely balanced and also useless for climbing?? What about needing really beastly burly legs for those all-important rock-over moves you, errr, don't get in burly board style climbing?? (Another spoiler, look at Megos' legs, he does okay). Etc etc et-fucking-cetera. The general principle still seems sound to me).


TL,DR: Rejoice all you heavy climbers who have that bulk in shoulders, lats, traps, biceps and forearms - you're gonna do just fine. As for the not-quite-as-heavy climbers who have legs so heavy their pivot point is below their arse, GLHF, you're fucked.

i know i dont ever want to be big again. i cant tell you what a hindrance muscles were for climbing.

Alex B

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It's occurred to me, in a blindingly obvious way, that the issue is not just about power-to-weight-per-height, but also about the distribution of that weight AND the functionality of that weight towards climbing. Crudely, any weight that is distributed towards climbing-relevant muscles is likely to be more beneficial and less inhibitive than weight distributed elsewhere (on anything except slabs). Equally crudely, that roughly corresponds to the upper body, upper torso, arms etc (again, on anything except slabs).
Aren't you basically just saying that, if you take two climbers of equal weight and height, the one with more (climbing-specific) muscle will climb harder, all else being equal. Surely that's obvious?

What I find more interesting is the question of whether fat distribution matters i.e. if you gain 5kg of fat, is it better for it to go on your torso or your legs etc. 

webbo

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You can probably hide it better if itís on your legs. :lol:

teestub

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Reckon it would deffo be easier to climb with a 5kg weight vest than 5kg of ankle weights (or 5kg of wrist weights!) Maybe even harder would be a 5kg hat 😂

JamieG

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Reckon it would deffo be easier to climb with a 5kg weight vest than 5kg of ankle weights (or 5kg of wrist weights!) Maybe even harder would be a 5kg hat 😂

This relates to well documented phenomenon in animal locomotion. Animals that run fast have evolved to reduced the weight at their feet and lower legs. All the large muscles are close to the body and the forces are transferred to joints via long tendons. In the cases of ostrich and horses the have also reduced the number of toes they run on. Ostrich have two and horses effectively run on one middle toe/finger. All about minimising distal weight and therefore the forces need to move the limb.

So I would think the same applies to climbing. Any additional weight you need to carry would be best to be near your centre of mass. Good news for beer bellies!  :beer2:

SA Chris

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Many top runners have big thighs and skinny calves too, less swing weight.

Fiend

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I've found strong legs to be extremely beneficial for steep bouldering. As a former weightlifter and heavy squatter, I'm never going to have small legs, in fact they are still my largest muscle group (relative to where they should be), but the only time I find them a disadvantage is when cutting loose. Perhaps crucially, good mobility is needed in combination with the beef so that the power can be put to use in weird positions. Just gain a couple of kg's on your max hangs to make up for the muscle weight  :thumbsup:
Yeah nice one thunder-thighs...





 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Okay so it's not exactly Megos REDS sparrow legs but that's hardly beef there and quite clearly you've got a body well athletically honed and balanced for climbing, so you can wheesht with all this "heavy legs are good for climbing" shite.


 

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