[Paul B]

Sharples once told me (whilst nursing an injury) that as he got older climbing was simply about injury management rather than anything else. I think Reevey was nursing an elbow udder at the time and nodded in agreement! I know plenty of people that keep getting better and better as they get older (>40) but perhaps this is simply due to climbing being very skills based?

Totally disagree with this. I stopped running in my 40’s (was doing half marathons) and found it made no difference to my climbing which is not surprising as climbing is not a cardio vascular / VO2 max sport. Also my large legs became medium sized so she’d a couple of kilos there. It is also difficult to maintain flexibility if you run regularly. I do think that general all round body strength (not endurance) is helpful especially in preventing injury and doing that sort of sort of training combats the loss of muscle mass that comes with aging.

I think the energy expended and recovery from the other sport is an issue (it also eats into available time to spend getting better at whatever the priority is). I took up road cycling mainly because if I climbed as frequently as I was doing I just couldn't avoid injury. However, the weekends where I'd been on the bike Sat, and tried to climb Sun were eye-opening; I was totally ruined and my ability to keep my feet on when climbing steep stuff was massively reduced.

Is there a reason why running is better for staying light than dieting when you're old? I've always thought it makes sense to plan activities and then manipulate weight around that if you wish using diet, rather than using activity to manipulate weight. IIRC there's some evidence to back that up too (i.e. dietary intervention being more successful than activity intervention for weight loss). Is there a reason for that to change when you get old?

If you actually enjoy eating (or actively dislike dieting) then perhaps ensuring a deficit from increasing exercise is actually easier / more enjoyable / less miserable? After all, you actually have to diet for it to be effective.

This is a crucial point. Look at any old boy performing well and they will almost always have a consistently good level of general fitness and relative leanness-per-height, do a lot of CV activity (running up the Ben for a "rest day", eh Dave Mac?), and have a background in athletic activity.

In one of Highlander's videos he speaks about training for people with a sedentary job and those with an active job (I can remember a few route setters who would always say they were trashed when it came to training or climbing). I think he concluded that the active-job type people were more resistant to injury and general training load. Perhaps there's something there or perhaps I'm mis-remembering.

[cheque]

I don’t find any difference in being able to gain strength in my 40s (it’s not that old really it it?), as others say the differences are in how long it takes to recover and how easy it is to get injured. A bit like playing a computer game* on hard mode- it’s the same game but you can’t get away with making the same mistakes you could when you were on the easy setting.

Funny how so many threads come back to the idea that being light is the most important thing in climbing. I’ve always been really light and I’ve always been burnt off by people who are heavier than me. Obviously the idea that you’re the perfect climber but are held back by the cruel fate of weighing a bit is appealing but as far as self-defeating mentalities go it’s probably up there with thinking you’re on the scrapheap because of your age.

*disclaimer- I haven’t played a computer game since about 2003

[webbo]

At the young age of 67 I ride one day climb the next, although at moment the climbing tends be just on my board 40 degree. After a good session on the board I can wake in the middle of the night with locked fingers. I get cramp in my abs when riding if I cough.
I would like to get out more but my arthritic left hip is at a stage where I struggle to get my sock,so the thought of dragging myself and a pad to the crag to find I can’t get my shoe on is a bit off putting.
But the good news is I can still do last years problems often several sessions worth in one session and I can ride 60 to 100 miles and climb the next day.

[Fiend]

Funny how so many threads come back to the idea that being light is the most important thing in climbing.

That's partly my fault, sorry if it's a bit  . I did also mention "Don't get injured" and have posted at least two posts directly responding to Stewart's analysis of the situation.

OTOH physically hard climbing is a fundamentally power-to-weight based activity. You're hauling your body up overhanging terrain. There are obviously many factors but having the power to haul the weight up is essential.

I’ve always been really light and I’ve always been burnt off by people who are heavier than me.

Usually necessary but not sufficient. One could say similar about muscle mass, finger strength, etc etc.

Obviously the idea that you’re the perfect climber but are held back by the cruel fate of weighing a bit is appealing

It's not necessarily appealing at all. Depending on the circumstances and desires that vary from person to person, it can be a pretty unpleasant realisation. It's best not to make the mistake of looking at someone highlighting "issue X" and judging them as "that person is egotistically using issue X as an excuse and deluding themselves that they'd be amazing without it".

but as far as self-defeating mentalities go it’s probably up there with thinking you’re on the scrapheap because of your age.

Again this varies from person to person but sometimes it can be simple acknowledgement of facts about the situation for that person. It's not self-defeating if the climbing inhibition is real and is known to be real by the person talking about it (see Tom B's and Eddies' posts too).

[Fiend]

All sounds an awful lot like correlation and not that much like causation..?

This is true. But there seems to be logic there that being in overall physically good shape, including fitness, would be beneficial for challenging physical activity (subject to resting well etc).

OTOH it would be very interesting to see science behind "not being that active, not doing the CV stuff Eddies mentioned, and still climbing physically hard in later life". Maybe it's as simple as "just take roids!" 

[seankenny]

OTOH it would be very interesting to see science behind "not being that active, not doing the CV stuff Eddies mentioned, and still climbing physically hard in later life".

I'm not sure a binary dose/no dose view makes sense here. Surely it's about the amount of CV activity that's at issue, making it even harder to ascertain its effect.

[moose]

I’ve done no CV fitness stuff since doing a bit of five a side back in 2005!

Can’t stand running (it’s nearly as bad as golf 😂)

I have started skateboarding recently 🤟

Similar but worse - I haven't done any CV exercise since I was at school in 1992!  My only exercise is climbing, weekends and holidays only, and the nearest I get to a CV workout is a slog of a walk-in with pads.  If Fiend's right it looks like I'm in for a rude awakening.

[Fiend]

You mean "if Eddies is right"....

[peterbeal]

Hate to say it but post-50, watching weight and avoiding injury is about 30% of the game. Dedicated time on actual hard moves and training is 30%. Actually finding time, compatible routes, and partners also able to climb hard? 40%+

[Stewart]

So, general rather than extremely specific climbing fitness. with the belief my finger strength is a weakness. Going to try the lattice free finger assessment this weekend and try and assess it compared to bodyweight.

The plot thickens. I did the lattice rung test this evening.  At the risk of sounding a bit Macleod I surprised myself.  167% bodyweight.  That is 55kg on top of my weighed in 82kg which according to the free analysis is 'much stronger than expected for 7C'. Simultaneously pleasing and discouraging at the same time. Perhaps the weakness is elsewhere...  In reality the test is too basic. Getting 8 fingers into what is effectively an incut jug rail is far different from trying to squeeze two half pads onto a tiny hold or whatever.  It has made my question other aspects of my performance though.  Time for a bit of coaching I think 🤔

[JamieG]

One thing that rarely gets mentioned on these discussions is just skill/talent. Some people are just ‘good’ at sport. I know several people that are just good at almost any activity you point them at. Just good hand/eye/body coordination etc. I guess it doesn’t get discussed because it is hard to quantify and impossible to train. But some people just seem talented.

[Wellsy]

All sounds an awful lot like correlation and not that much like causation..?

This is true. But there seems to be logic there that being in overall physically good shape, including fitness, would be beneficial for challenging physical activity (subject to resting well etc).

OTOH it would be very interesting to see science behind "not being that active, not doing the CV stuff Eddies mentioned, and still climbing physically hard in later life". Maybe it's as simple as "just take roids!" 

I dunno about roids but getting TRT from a licensed medical professional almost certainly would help, it seems to in other sports.

[User deactivated.]

So, general rather than extremely specific climbing fitness. with the belief my finger strength is a weakness. Going to try the lattice free finger assessment this weekend and try and assess it compared to bodyweight.

The plot thickens. I did the lattice rung test this evening.  At the risk of sounding a bit Macleod I surprised myself.  167% bodyweight.  That is 55kg on top of my weighed in 82kg which according to the free analysis is 'much stronger than expected for 7C'. Simultaneously pleasing and discouraging at the same time. Perhaps the weakness is elsewhere...  In reality the test is too basic. Getting 8 fingers into what is effectively an incut jug rail is far different from trying to squeeze two half pads onto a tiny hold or whatever.  It has made my question other aspects of my performance though.  Time for a bit of coaching I think 🤔

As you have alluded to, a strong performance on big edges does not automatically translate to performing well on small edges /other grips.

Despite testing poorly on a 20mm edge, my climbing experience is that I do quite well on crimpy problems. After joining Lattice I learnt that I test much better on small edges. Seems you could potentially have the opposite profile?

[cwaddy]

Hate to say it but post-50, watching weight and avoiding injury is about 30% of the game. Dedicated time on actual hard moves and training is 30%. Actually finding time, compatible routes, and partners also able to climb hard? 40%+

Clearly the problem is that your not giving 110% which, as anyone who follows football knows, is what professional coaches demand

[petejh]

As a 47 year old still psyched on every form of climbing and wanting to do my best in all of them, I have nothing to add other than,
1. Motivation underlies everything, so whatever motivates you most should direct any training. But as you age there’s increasing value in reflecting on the wisdom of being motivated by certain thing (motivation writing cheques the body can’t cash). A change of scene from the more intensive hard bouldering/sport, to adventurous trad/DWS/alpine rock/ice climbing etc. Could make more sense to light a new flame than trying too hard to keep a diminishing flame lit.
 2. Effective training usually involves pushing the body beyond its comfort zone.
3. Pushing a body beyond its comfort zone = increased risk of injury.
4. Time injured is time not climbing or training.
5. Time is in ever shorter supply the older you get.

Corrected: 1. Be light for your height or have the ability to get light for your height (or may not apply if "weight" is disproportionately in climbing relevant muscles)

So the magic bullet is get shorter, and lighter.

[mrjonathanr]

So the magic bullet is get shorter, and lighter.

Fortunately, with age, we all get shorter. So that’s 50% of the battle won already   

[Andy W]

This thread has made some interesting reading and made me reflect on my condition at 58 years old.

Longevity and improvement...I’m bouldering harder now than ever, at least in terms of grades, within a speciality of crimpy, steep and short and a very small CV of dodgy and dubious 7C to 8A Font maximum.

I’ve always liked training and always made sure that I have had access to a board (since the mid 90's). Currently I have a good set up, home board and campus board, beast makers etc and this has really helped keep the progress. I’ve usually trained on my own, striving to train weaknesses, but often falling back on things I like doing, but if I can see this as some kind of cycle then its probably quite effective. A re-set on my board often produces improvement. I would definitely advise variety in training and training plans often encourage that, at least encouraging base levels etc.

I’d say in my 50’s I’ve specialised or gone down a very narrowing alley, I don’t think there is much left to squeeze out, but I will try!

In my 40’s I had some variety, probably more fun, but didn’t boulder as hard.

I would say that in your 40’s there is definitely lots of room for improvement. Managing injuries is a big thing, I can’t remember not having some kind of injury. Managing big injuries is a bigger thing! Knee operations and such like. Managing life styles and stuff that comes along is another big factor. If you can keep going, have a body that is predisposed to climbing and keep the motivation then improvement is a definite possibility. I’d also say that bouldering better or even harder is not just about grades and if motivation can arrive from that position, the improvement in grade might be a bonus.

[Andy W]

I wanted to edit my last post, I forgot to add my theory for longevity and improvement; drink lots of red wine and never try and flash problems. In seriousness, working problems allows to you to feel your way into the moves and pull back if its clear your body doesn't like it. Onsighting especially near your limits seems to require a fierce, commitment, a kind of competitiveness that for an ageing body might not be great.

[IS2]

I’m very old (70+) and have climbed for 56years with no breaks other than easier years due to kids and work commitments.
Subjectively I am pretty sure I got stronger over lockdown when I used a lattice program to keep me focused.
Objectively; I began a finger training programme November 2020 with a force plate that gives me actual measurements, using a 15mm edge. Single hand hangs have steadily improved from about 36kg each hand. My July 2022 averages are around about 50 kg for each hand (max 54kg).  So I suggest that the answer to the question re gaining strength in 40s is probably yes. Whether this improves your climbing is another question as possibly, is does it let you climb harder grades.

[Wood FT]

What do you do with a force plate? Pull down as hard you can
and take a reading?

[IS2]

Yep basically. Max pull test start of each month. Then twice a week warm up, then 12 pulls at 85% of current max, 2 mins rest between each pair. Warm down. 30 mins well spent. Force plate links to app which provides graphic re pulling force and time and stores all sessions. Also gives Rate of force development for each pull.

[Wood FT]

How much is this technological snake oil? 😁

Jokes aside, how much is it?

[teestub]

How much is this technological snake oil? 😁

Jokes aside, how much is it?

Thread about the Tindeq from a little while ago

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31157.msg631844.html#msg631844

[Bradders]

Can similar be achieved with a fingerboard and a set of bathroom scales?

If you want to really push the boat out Beastmaker do this:

https://www.beastmaker.co.uk/products/motherboard

[User deactivated.]

Can similar be achieved with a fingerboard and a set of bathroom scales?

If you want to really push the boat out Beastmaker do this:

https://www.beastmaker.co.uk/products/motherboard

I've used a cheap digital luggage scale in combination with a spanner to torque bolts to spec so I don't see why not!

I reckon the easiest way would be to drill a small hole in the portable hangboard you use for pickups, put the hook on the scale through it and the other end to an anchor, either on the ground or overhead.