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Biggest technological advances in climbing (Read 5364 times)

jwi

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Following recent discussions about climbing routes with retrograde equipment and historically authentic climbing movements, I was starting to think about which technological advancements have made the biggest difference in making climbing easier.

I have from time to time posed this question to old (=even older than me) climbers. Often phrased as which technological advancements have made the biggest difference for them personally. The two most common answers I have had so far are 'reliable weather forecasts' and 'gore tex'. (I guess that is because I have mostly asked people with strong alpine background).

I cannot possibly have an opinon on this myself, as I do not think there has been any great improvement of any technologies since I started climbing in earnest. I started right after the introduction of indoor climbing (plastic modular holds), which might have been the last technology that made an impact on the level of climbing.

Wellsy

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Climbing Shoes must surely be massively better than they once were

moose

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Developments during my life-time largely been incremental (better performing rock shoes, lighter ropes and hard-wear, bigger bouldering pads etc.).  The only "new" thing has probably been commercially made knee-pads (rather than home-made / ad hoc efforts at cushioning).

I guess for rock climbing, key developments have been modern kernmantle construction ropes, rather than hemp; decent harnesses; reliable, commercially made removable protection, culminating in camming devices; and bouldering mats. 

jwi

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Climbing Shoes must surely be massively better than they once were

Yeah, but Charles Albert climbs 8C+ barefoot, so how much do they really help with technical difficulty?

jwi

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commercially made removable protection, culminating in camming devices

One old climber I talked to claimed it was easier and safer to free climb with pitons and a hammer than with any modern gear. It may reflect the type of rock and style of climbing he was an expert at, as it is clearly not true for wide cracks for example

remus

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Climbing Shoes must surely be massively better than they once were

Yeah, but Charles Albert climbs 8C+ barefoot, so how much do they really help with technical difficulty?

No Kpote Only has been downgraded by repeat ascentionists who suggested it was easier in climbing shoes. It seems clear they're at least beneficial for some routes/problems.

duncan

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The cordless drill (Hilti c.1983).  John Sherman's Sketch-Pad (early 1990s).

jwi

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Climbing Shoes must surely be massively better than they once were

Yeah, but Charles Albert climbs 8C+ barefoot, so how much do they really help with technical difficulty?

No Kpote Only has been downgraded by repeat ascentionists who suggested it was easier in climbing shoes. It seems clear they're at least beneficial for some routes/problems.

Yeah, they seem to help a bit, but it is not like Albert would be able to boulder 9B if he put on some shoes?

jwi

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The cordless drill (Hilti c.1983).  John Sherman's Sketch-Pad (early 1990s).

Good commercially available crash pads made a huge difference for us on which kind of areas we could develop for bouldering. The home made shit I used before really limited outdoor bouldering to areas with really good flat landings. But in areas like Fontainebleau they don't seem to change the game that much.

Hand drilling is a bitch even in sandstone, and would be completely infeasible on the style of route that is most popular today (hand drilling on a 45 degree overhang... I could get tendonitis from just thinking of it!). Cordless drills must be one of the biggest advances in climbing.

owensum

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Not the biggest innovation, but the latest: Video beta

danm

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Proper QA and Standards.

Since these became mandatory in the EU, equipment that doesn't work reliably has almost totally disappeared. I was going through a load of old files yesterday after we cleared out our offsite storage. From before the time of EN standards, reams and reams of equipment failure reports. A 12 strong team of experts to investigate, and piles of correspondence from injured or alarmed climbers. The volume was pretty shocking for someone who today shares the odd recall or warning and sometimes does research into improvements or edge case failures. The landscape has changed completely.

Dac

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Since I started climbing (in the mid 90's) I'd have to say that the biggest advance in actual climbing equipment is the crash pad. The advantages between bouldering over a pad (or 3) versus the car mat and tea towel combo I started with are massive.

However the biggest technological advance the modern climber has is far and away the internet. Route details, weather, conditions, beta; all there for anyone who wants them, even while at the crag most of the time.

When I think back to some of my old pre-internet practices it seems like I'm describing something from 100 years ago.
Going winter climbing: don't forget to look at the mountain weather on Ceefax for a week or so before you go (it shares a page with the fishing information).
New route / significant repeat? Well in about 2 months you can read all about it in the climbing mags.
In the Alps and wondering if the weather is going to hold, well just walk into town go to the guides office and see if they have put today's forecast on the notice board yet.

The amount of information now available, it's ease of access, and it's rapid rate of update is far more valuable any downturned shoe or lighter rope will ever be.

webbo

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Chalk.

edshakey

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Surely ropes you can actually fall on is up there, or even top of the list

jwi

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I very much agree on ropes

colin8ll

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Resin climbing holds. They fuelled the comp scene which led to our modern understanding of training, rest and nutrition which, in turn, raised standards across the sport.

andy moles

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I'm surprised that Gore Tex is mentioned as one of the biggest advances in making (alpine) climbing easier, compared to some of the other things mentioned (like weather forecasts!).

I'm consistently disappointed by my Gore Tex clothing failing, more or less out of the box, in what I consider to be its primary function of keeping me dry. I'm using it for guiding in the wettest conditions that the west of Scotland has throw, but still.

I don't doubt it's much lighter and more comfortable than what they had before, but doesn't it only come into play when conditions aren't good anyway, i.e. a game changer when the shit hits but not necessarily so vital to max standards of performance?

The waxed cotton or whatever they were using before must have been properly grim!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 07:52:54 am by andy moles »

Fiend

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Ropes you can fall on, resin holds, weather forecasts, and bouldering mats for me.

Having seen the latter appear in my climbing lifetime and as someone who lands like a sack-o-spuds, even the basic small proper mats made a huge step forward.

Protection and shoes have seemed more incremental to me (maybe not cams), and chalk, whilst undeniably physically essential for some of us, is maybe not quite a leap if you were choosing good conditions anyway.

jwi

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I'm surprised that Gore Tex is mentioned as one of the biggest advances in making (alpine) climbing easier, compared to some of the other things mentioned (like weather forecasts!).

If you don't climb when the conditions are absolutely awful you don't get an impressive list of FAs in northern Scandinavia I guess?

Dexter

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Maybe not as a positive advancement but instagram.... :worms:

mr chaz

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Those little brushes that unscrew at the end so you can keep things in, like your CBD gummies

andy moles

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Interesting to reflect on developments in the last fifteen or so years that I've been climbing.

I don't think the majority of things have improved to any significant degree. When I started bouldering we didn't have pads, but that was because we were students and it wasn't long after that everyone had one. They definitely got bigger and better, was it about ten years ago?

I guess leashless ergonomic tools were taking off in a big way around the time I started, which have made a big difference in Scottish mixed climbing standards.

Helmets have got lighter and more comfortable, and the culture around wearing them has changed, but that's more to do with safety than making climbing itself easier.

Knee pads I guess. I took some contrarian pleasure in not using one (because I didn't own one) in Leonidio last winter, then relented when I realised how much of a difference it made on some routes.

I sometimes think it's like new cars now, where manufacturers are so desperate to innovate that they do something new for the sake of it, but it's actually less useful and more annoying than what came before, e.g. magnetic helmet buckles, string crampons, niche belay devices, integrated harness shorts, scented chalk...

James Malloch

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Training plans? Everyone is a training machine these days…

andy moles

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I bet some climbers have always had something of a 'training plan' though, like doing Font circuits for the Alps.

Muenchener

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Maybe not the biggest, but I remember the arrival of Firé's with sticky rubber being an immediate half a grade jump from EB's for everybody, even for me at my total punter level.

Probably my proudest ever bouldering achievement is a 6c at the Manchester Uni MacDougall wall that I managed once in a brand new pair of Firé's, and was never able to repeat.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 04:16:31 pm by Muenchener »

peterbeal

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Chalk. Hand friction pretty much beats any other factor in determining climbing difficulty. Climbers owe a huge debt to John Gill for this adaptation from gymnastics.

jwi

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another thing I was thinking of is strong snap gates. Before reliable carabiners where introduced, climbers untied and threaded welded rings for intermediate points. For technical difficulty that's maybe not a huge deal, the routes they did were not sustained anyway so there should be plenty of places to stop and untie and tie back in, but to be able to climb efficiently and to get up long routes before the weather turn it must have made an enormous difference.

I am almost completely ignorant of climbing history before the second world war, was there a period of huge improvement in the alps after the introduction of the snap gate? So about 1920s or so?

Johnny Brown

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Quote
was there a period of huge improvement in the alps after the introduction of the snap gate?

I don't know, but I doubt it. My understanding is Karabiners improved significantly during WW2, but the older ones I've seen tend to be steel screwgates. As much as that made it easier to place runners I would guess the stiff ropes, limited protection options and lack of extenders etc all limited their impact. The more time passes the bigger the revolution of the 1970's seems: kernmantel rope and aluminium snapgates , sit harnesses, wired nuts then camming devices all in about 15 years. My Dad's rack from the late sixties/ early seventies was a hawser laid rope, hemp waistline, steel krabs, machine nuts and pitons. By the mid-eighties you basically had a modern rack with gear from RPs to big cams and plenty of quickdraws. Since then it has only got lighter, in fact you could argue there are generally less options on the shelves as items like tricams, amigos, ballnuts etc neever really took off.

Will Hunt

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When writing the history section for Northern Rock I came to the conclusion that the story of rock climbing history is the story of technological advancement: the two are inseparable. Ropes that wouldn't snap were clearly critical - it didn't matter how good your other gear became if the thing you'd clipped it to broke.

Obviously I wasn't there and didn't experience it but I'd say it's difficult to point at one particular development and say "that's the most important" because the developments came close together from the late 60s. Nuts had been around for a while but they started to improve, the Whillans harness, proper ropes, belay devices etc. All of that combines to start the modern era where The Leader Shall Not Fall becomes much less relevant.

The other part of the equation, which isn't technological improvement but is part of the positive feedback loop driving it, is the number of active climbers. In the days where leading was just barely safer than soloing, climbing understandably had a limited appeal and a lot of its practitioners dropped out when they had families or otherwise lost the boldness of youth. As better kit made climbing safer it not only increased the ability of current climbers to push themselves, it increased the appeal of the whole sport meaning a larger pool of climbers. Greater numbers not only increases the number of exceptional climbers but also drives the commercial development of gear.

Fultonius

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I am almost completely ignorant of climbing history before the second world war, was there a period of huge improvement in the alps after the introduction of the snap gate? So about 1920s or so?

For your reading pleasure:  https://www.bigwallgear.com/

Fultonius

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The other part of the equation, which isn't technological improvement but is part of the positive feedback loop driving it, is the number of active climbers. In the days where leading was just barely safer than soloing, climbing understandably had a limited appeal and a lot of its practitioners dropped out when they had families or otherwise lost the boldness of youth. As better kit made climbing safer it not only increased the ability of current climbers to push themselves, it increased the appeal of the whole sport meaning a larger pool of climbers. Greater numbers not only increases the number of exceptional climbers but also drives the commercial development of gear.

I was mulling over something similar when facing a crux move on and HVS/E1 in Glencoe, a classic Robin Smith route. The gear was a sling draped over a spike at your feet, with a bit of a nasty looking fall onto a slab. "Pretty pokey" I thought, for HVS (as the move was 5a/5b).  However, back in the days when these were done, that was probably thought to be a more "well protected" move seeing as they were more soloing between the odd island of security in those days.

Fiend

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Might need to add "RPs" as they can drop routes 2 full grades if you actually place the available gear, and "Guidebooks" as they can drop routes 3 full grades if you actually read them and realise what route you're climbing  :-\

Dexter

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What about cheap flights. Pretty much anyone can afford to travel to most prime locations these days, and pro climbers go all over the world trying the hardest routes.

Fultonius

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What about cheap flights. Pretty much anyone can afford to travel to most prime locations these days, and pro climbers go all over the world trying the hardest routes.

Not reckon that particular "Golden Age" (of cheap travel) might be behind us now / soon?  40c predicted this week.  :whistle:


Muenchener

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I was mulling over something similar when facing a crux move on and HVS/E1 in Glencoe, a classic Robin Smith route. The gear was a sling draped over a spike at your feet, with a bit of a nasty looking fall onto a slab. "Pretty pokey" I thought, for HVS (as the move was 5a/5b).  However, back in the days when these were done, that was probably thought to be a more "well protected" move seeing as they were more soloing between the odd island of security in those days.

I read an interview years ago with Jack Longland where he was talking about Javelin Blade - 1930s contender for first E1 in Wales - and he said the crux felt ok because he was only about twenty feet above his belayer. I recall being only about zero feet above an Idwal-typical questionable sideways wire in a shallow pocket and not feeling particularly ok

Will Hunt

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I am almost completely ignorant of climbing history before the second world war, was there a period of huge improvement in the alps after the introduction of the snap gate? So about 1920s or so?

On a bit of a tangent, because your question is more specific to the Alps and I'm thinking of climbing in the UK, and it's also just my personal musing, but my view is that advances in climbing prior to some time around the 60s was more dependent on remarkable individuals than gear.

In the absence of a proper safety system, and with relatively few climbers playing the game, climbing standards were being driven forward principally by a few extraordinary individuals. On Yorkshire Gritstone the void that is left when Frankland is killed on Gable Crag is palpable - I don't think his standard was bettered for 10 years after his death.

This reminds me of something Dan V talked about in his Jam Crack podcast, of how you can trace the development of early years climbing by the rail network. Wasdale Head seems an oddly inaccessible choice to us now to be one of the crucibles of English climbing because it's a complete fuckabout to get to in a car, however in the early days before widespread car/motorbike ownership and decent roads that was the valley most accessible by train.

jwi

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Pierre Allain introduced the aluminium snapgate around the 2nd world war, and the down jacket and the down sleeping bag some years before. They certainly helped improve the level quite a bit in the Alps.

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20046.msg542953.html#msg542953

Wellsy

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It's interesting that technology and certain things like extremely hard bouldering where training specificity and slivers of percentage points hugely matter are intersecting in new ways. Like Aidan 3D scanning burden of dreams on his phone to build an exact replica on a board and suchlike. Obviously only really relevant to those on the cutting edge like Aidan, DWoods, Fiend and so on, but it's an example of pushing the limit further being possible in part due to technology that even ten years ago was basically just not commonly available

For me I think its the bouldering pad, chalk doesn't feel like a technological advancement I guess, but if it counts probably chalk

seankenny

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I am almost completely ignorant of climbing history before the second world war, was there a period of huge improvement in the alps after the introduction of the snap gate? So about 1920s or so?

On a bit of a tangent, because your question is more specific to the Alps and I'm thinking of climbing in the UK, and it's also just my personal musing, but my view is that advances in climbing prior to some time around the 60s was more dependent on remarkable individuals than gear.

In the absence of a proper safety system, and with relatively few climbers playing the game, climbing standards were being driven forward principally by a few extraordinary individuals. On Yorkshire Gritstone the void that is left when Frankland is killed on Gable Crag is palpable - I don't think his standard was bettered for 10 years after his death.

This reminds me of something Dan V talked about in his Jam Crack podcast, of how you can trace the development of early years climbing by the rail network. Wasdale Head seems an oddly inaccessible choice to us now to be one of the crucibles of English climbing because it's a complete fuckabout to get to in a car, however in the early days before widespread car/motorbike ownership and decent roads that was the valley most accessible by train.

Good post Will, it’s fascinating the interplay between individual agency and culture/outlook being downstream of technological advances. My grandfather had a car from about the mid-20s and reading his diaries from the time it’s clear what a massive effort doing a road trip around the U.K. was back then. Even just in daily life he was always stopping to help people who’d come off the road, his car was always breaking down, etc. Going to Cumbria from Yorkshire was like going abroad - his words not mine and he had actually been abroad so it’s not as if he was completely naive. There’s a palpable sense of being cut off from the rest of the country, with the papers not arriving until late and really strong accents and dialect.

Something else that might have helped rising standards in the 1970s… People used to get  married much earlier and had kids earlier so perhaps we can thank the revolution in contraception for giving us longer, pre-family climbing careers.



 

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