[Aussiegav]

Are there any people here how are regulars at the Hangar in Sheffield?
Had a look around yesterday, looks good. Appears to be loads of variation in the hold types and angles of problems.
Apparently they’re going to add a circuit board very soon.
Debating between here & the Climbing Depot.
After a bouldering gym with loads of variety & section with physical conditioning.

[matt463]

Just recently swapped to here instead of Depot. Much better in my opinion. Prefer the hold type variation on the same grades. Depot tend to have the same sort of holds for each different grade boundary.

[abarro81]

The Hangar apparently has a no tops off rule, which I have a visceral dislike to...

[Aussiegav]

My days of no top are long gone.

Very conscious of how unsightly I appear nowadays. 
I couldn’t put anyone through that sight.

[T_B]

Pros:

Good setting and variety of surfaces/holds.

Friendly and professional staff. Feels very inclusive. No tops off policy.

Good campus board.

Good mid-grade up to 7a/7a+ Beastmaker board.

Good lower grade Kilter board.

Cafe separate from chalky climbing area. Pizza. Beer.

There are weights etc but I can’t really comment as I never used that area.

Cons:

Size. I got a bit bored eventually.

‘Atmosphere’. I rarely saw anyone there I knew and prefer the Works as a place to go.

No circuit board. Dunno what their plans are but the Depot circuit boards are hard to beat.

Not so good if you’re operating 7c and above.

Expensive cafe.

Conclusion. If location isn’t a factor I’d personally choose the Depot over the Hangar. I’d probably recommend the latter to a beginner and kids really like it. Or for short/lunch time sessions if you’re operating up to Font 7a and not so bothered about circuits.

[Goat]

I have bouldered at the gyms around sheffield, and the hangar surprised me with how good it is. Here's my summary

-Cheapest gym in Sheffield-monthly membership at £29 a month.
-Reset very, very often. New comp climbs seem to go up all the time and individual walls are reset very frequently. This is great.
-In my opinion, the best setting in Sheffield. (Controversial and may start a new thread.) It goes without saying that this is a personal preference. All gyms have their own unique quality that makes them good. The reason I like the Hangar best, on the whole, is that. 1) The problems are just fun. 2) They never seem to be unfair. If you can't do a move it most often will seem in some way doable- This is something many gyms struggle with when setting. 3) The slab setting is just excellent. 4) Large range of walls as well as 2 training boards (kilter and beastmaker.)
-Nice staff.
-Great range of holds crimps, pinches, slopers volumes etc.
-I'm pretty sure if you climbed without your top on no one would care, especially if it was hot.

Don't want to go into great detail about the other gyms in Sheffield. However, I am currently switching monthly membership between the hangar and another gym.

[Scouse D]

The tops off rule is enforced. The wall is good and the setting excellent but it feels like a destination wall where you go for funky, interesting problems every once in a while. Many of the problems are trick moves/funky moves so hard to know when you are going well. Whereas the depot feels like the problems are more basic so it feels like you make more measured progression.

[Mostly_Inanimate_Beans]

Fun as a one off every now and then, much prefer The Foundry.

Kilterboard is good for stroking the ego.

No tops off is irritating.

[Carliios]

I found a workaround for the no tops off rule. Where a dress shirt and unbutton it

[webbo]

I found a workaround for the no tops off rule. Where a dress shirt and unbutton it

Do you leave your Bow tie still tied or undone.

[Moo]

I get where they’re coming at with the no tops off rule, vests for the win.

[matt463]

Yea I don’t find the rule too distressing either. Just another public place where it’s expected that I stay fully clothed

[Fiend]

It's good for the auto-boycott without visiting. Any place that inhibits training* and penalises people with hot-running metabolisms can 



(* oh but wait you have to wear a top at the gym OMG REALLY well guess fucking what you're not trying to keep cool enough to hold frictional slopers at the gym, WHATEVER dickwads)

[Wellsy]

It's pretty decent, but I'd go to the Works first and Depot second tbh

[dr_botnik]

I do think the setting is really high quality, even on the lower grades. As others have said, the depot has more board space and circuit boards (and more space for circuits) so it can get busy at peak times. It's walking distance from my house so I have membership, but I am strongly considering switching to the depot now that my work commute takes me down the parkway...

[tommytwotone]

I found a workaround for the no tops off rule. Where a dress shirt and unbutton it

After Leeds (Pudsey) Depot attempted to enforce a similar ban years back, my intended workaround was a white t-shirt, printed with a photograph of my own torso, to see what would happen next.

Thankfully they saw sense and reversed the embargo!

[Duncan Disorderly]

Went once, I thought the setting was good and the bar area looked nice...

Did feel a clear 20 years older than most of the other punters and a little out of place... They all look so young and fresh-faced with all their own hair and teeth!!
It's not that I like to see men in their 40's, 50's and 60's in their underpants getting changed in the middle of the wall but I've just come to expect it...

 

[Carliios]

I found a workaround for the no tops off rule. Where a dress shirt and unbutton it

After Leeds (Pudsey) Depot attempted to enforce a similar ban years back, my intended workaround was a white t-shirt, printed with a photograph of my own torso, to see what would happen next.

Thankfully they saw sense and reversed the embargo!

I just don’t get it but also I run really hot when I’m bouldering usually because I don’t stop between attempts to rest so I find myself sweating buckets. I wish gyms would just get over it and let people go topless. I don’t see what the issue is personally. It’s just a body, who gives a shit?

People complain about it being unsanitary but no one stops the punters from going into the toilets with their tarantulaces?!?

[TobyD]

Those who are complaining about not being able to take their tops off in a wall should definitely avoid going to anywhere with an Islamic government, it was definitely not allowed in Malaysia, and it's an awful lot hotter there than in Yorkshire!

[Scouse D]

I find it very funny seeing young fellas peacocking about the wall. I too used to peacock about the wall, then I got a hairy back.

I know fiend is a sweaty git, but surely most incidences of tops off at the wall are young lads wanting to show the world their bulging muscles?

[Paul B]

Wait until they install a foil blanket in the roof and turn on the heaters at any sign of someone wanting to stretch (I'm looking at you Liverpool).

[danm]

A friends teenage daughter loves the Hangar precisely because of the no tops embargo. Her and her mates find young guys strutting around shirts off really intimidating, to the extent that she'd been a very keen climber until she hit puberty then stopped going, but has now enthusiastically embraced the Hangar as her safe space to climb. In that case, fair play to them, as there are big societal issues with young women dropping out of physical activity aged around 14 and anything which helps reduce that is a good thing, both for climbing and society in general.

[tommytwotone]

I find it very funny seeing young fellas peacocking about the wall. I too used to peacock about the wall, then I got a hairy back.

I know fiend is a sweaty git, but surely most incidences of tops off at the wall are young lads wanting to show the world their bulging muscles?

As a Dad of 2 youngish kids, having just gone through the last couple of years of COVID / lockdowns / home schooling / working from home etc, if I climb topless there definitely aren't any bulging muscles on show...bulging Dad-bod / muffin top maybe, but muscles are a dim and distant memory!

[abarro81]

Yann summed up my thoughts on no tops off rules in climbing very well back in about 2005 when Oxford Brookes tried to introduce that rule (IIRC we ignored them): "It's climbing, not golf". 

surely most incidences of tops off at the wall are young lads wanting to show the world their bulging muscles?

Given how many people are tops off at the School when on their own, this doesn't seem likely to me. Or people just see me coming and quickly rip their top off in order to impress me. Perhaps its different at some walls though.

Pros: No tops off policy.
Cons: ‘Atmosphere’

(yes, I know, correlation is not necessarily causation)

How do people who struggle with tops off cope at the crag, a sunny park, or a beach? If walls want to introduce it then that's their prerogative, but I'll always vote with my feet

[Moo]

I think to try and understand peoples logic on this you've really got to try and put yourself in their shoes. I run really hot when i'm climbing and used to much prefer to climb without a shirt on. Now that I'm so incredibly woke and sensitive I did pause to think about how other users of the wall were perceiving the environment that they were walking in to.

Imagine you're a young lass who's a bit self conscious walking into a wall for her first session and it was full of youths and old sweaty geezers with their shirts off. That's how it used to be back in the day, you can say yeah it's just a body and toughen up etc but the fact is that it puts some people right off and I personally want climbing to be as accessible and easy to get into for as many people who are motivated to give it a go as possible.

As far as you're beach analogy goes barrows it doesn't really compute for me, you can go places in a park or a beach that are out of the way but if you want a board session then you're forced into close proximity with people whether you like it or not.

[abarro81]

Yeah, maybe I can see why some would like it. But definitely not my scene, I guess I'm a Republican when it comes to walls - freedom rules!

[battery]

I have found walking into unfamiliar walls very intimidating in the past, and still do to a certain extent and I generally find the testosterone fuelled gangs of young lads much more of an issue than older people with their tops off.

I find this whole debate quite interesting as in the last couple of years I have gained the confidence to climb in just my sports bra and shorts. I was inspired by some other ladies in the wall doing it and it makes a huge difference to my ability to keep cool. Am I also intimidating for younger/newer climbers? (genuine question). My confidence has come from a place of simply not caring what other people think about what I look like - I am proud of what my body can do, not what it looks like - my body grew two brand new humans, delivered them safely into this world and fed them for nearly 6 years (combined).

[Fiend]

"Peacocking"

 "Strutting"

As always read between the lines and the issue is with peoples' behaviour and attitudes, not (just) their attire. And as always it seems more logical to tackle the behaviour (which is unlikely to be necessary for friction / training) rather than penalising the attire of those who don't peacock.

[teestub]

I guess it’s a lot easier and a lot less qualitative to police attire than behaviour!

[Carliios]

I overheat really quickly and find it quite difficult to climb with a top on as it gets totally drenched after 5 minutes. I’ll climb topless whether there’s no one at the wall or 50 people there, couldn’t care less what others think, at the end of the day it’s their problem and them projecting their own issues onto me. I’m there to climb not to look at peoples bodies and maybe others should do the same.

[Wellsy]

I am there to show off how jacked I am and how dare they stop me? I worked hard to look like some kind of devastatingly pale and smooth cave dwelling eel, one that has never felt the touch of the daystar

[Droyd]

I find it quite strange that people who presumably consider themselves to be considerate, compassionate, etc. can get so wound up about this infringement on their liberties, and be so blinkered in making the 'it's not my problem if other people find my behaviour upsetting' argument. It almost reminds me of the UKC arguments about renaming racist routes and the classic 'well I don't see a problem with it so why would anyone else?' logic.

The very first time I went to a climbing wall I was a scrawny kid and saw a bunch of jacked shirtless blokes and concluded that climbing couldn't possibly be for me, even though I really enjoyed it for every other reason. Obviously that was my issue and something that I had to work on myself, but I reckon if that's something that you're aware of - and anyone who's read this thread now is, because people are making the point - and you still feel that your right to not be a bit warm and sweaty (when you chose to go down to the wall on a warm and sweaty day) is more important than someone else's right to feel safe and able to be there, you're putting either either your own comfort or some vague notion of 'I should be allowed to do what I want' over other people's enjoyment.

I honestly don't see how it's any different to arguing that it's fine to blast music at the crag, on the basis that you like it and other people can leave if they don't.

[Carliios]

Surely we should just ban being shirtless everywhere then? Including the beach, parks or any public place where there might be people?

To your point about music, I don’t overheat because music isn’t being played so that doesn’t really make sense? Not the best analogy.

[Moo]

I don’t think droyd is trying to draw a direct equivalence between music and heat / being shirtless, rather the mindsets behind the two being similar.

[Carliios]

I don’t think they correlate seeing as one thing physically affects me but the other doesn’t. I sympathise but I’m not a fan of policing what people wear and I wouldn’t care what others are wearing in a warm climbing gym. Like I said, I’m there to train not to peacock or intimidate others. I just want to climb without people telling me what to wear.

[i_a_coops]

I feel like we're missing half the discussion here. What about the right to climb bottomless? If rampant toplessness doesn't affect the vibe and atmosphere of a climbing wall, then neither should that

[CapitalistPunter]

I feel like we're missing half the discussion here. What about the right to climb bottomless? If rampant toplessness doesn't affect the vibe and atmosphere of a climbing wall, then neither should that

Willy rash after scraping down a slab sounds excellent

[teestub]

Surely we should just ban being shirtless everywhere then? Including the beach, parks or any public place where there might be people?

If you’re at a crag and there’s a group of topless men who look like they are trying to touch another topless man whilst he climbs a small rock, then you can move on to another small rock out of view; this isn’t an option indoors.

[Carliios]

But this goes back to what makes the human body so intimidating? Literally everyone has a torso, it's not that spooky or scary.

We could also at this point ask men to please wear wetsuits at the swimming pool, it's an enclosed space with lots of people who cant get out of the way of a shirtless man breaststroking towards them.

[teestub]

Putting aside all your whataboutery, I still think you’re missing the point that it doesn’t really matter what you think about topless blokes at the wall. It is widely reported that people do find this intimidating and unwelcoming, walls want to be welcoming inclusive spaces, so they take measures to address this.

[Droyd]

As Moo says, my point with music is mindset - either not knowing or not  caring that what you're doing has a negative effect on other people's experiences.

The fact that it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it doesn't affect other people; clearly you're not going to the wall to make other people have a shit time, and I'd be willing to give a lot of people who go shirtless at the wall the benefit of the doubt and admit that they're not trying to show off or peacock. However: your intentions don't matter. If something you do makes other people feel shitty, the fact that you didn't mean to make them feel shitty doesn't mean you can just keep doing it. It's the same argument as 'we don't need to rename "One Less White N*****" at Shorn Cliff because it's an Elvis Costello lyric and so not intended to be racist', in that innocent intentions don't make it okay to use racial slurs.

What's more, it's not really that you don't like there being rules about what you  can and can't wear - if that was your principle, the joke about people going bottomless wouldn't be funny. What you don't like is that the rule goes against what you want to do.

[Wellsy]

Putting aside all your whataboutery, I still think you’re missing the point that it doesn’t really matter what you think about topless blokes at the wall. It is widely reported that people do find this intimidating and unwelcoming, walls want to be welcoming inclusive spaces, so they take measures to address this.

That said also just because people find something intimidating doesn't mean it should be banned. After all there are legit reasons to climb shirtless, when I'm on the board and it's hot, I'm sweaty, I want my shirt off for comfort and performance. I appreciate some people might find that intimidating but I make an effort to be friendly and welcoming to new people so as to make them feel more comfortable as well, ultimately some people are going to be intimidated by strong people climbing if they are not strong and that's their thing to deal with and hopefully get psyched by!

[i_a_coops]

I feel like the most inclusive policy might be to have some time slots where toplessness is allowed and some where it's not. 

The real hot water is which flavours of nipple are allowed on display during the 'topless' times. 

[Carliios]

As Moo says, my point with music is mindset - either not knowing or not  caring that what you're doing has a negative effect on other people's experiences.

The fact that it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it doesn't affect other people; clearly you're not going to the wall to make other people have a shit time, and I'd be willing to give a lot of people who go shirtless at the wall the benefit of the doubt and admit that they're not trying to show off or peacock. However: your intentions don't matter. If something you do makes other people feel shitty, the fact that you didn't mean to make them feel shitty doesn't mean you can just keep doing it. It's the same argument as 'we don't need to rename "One Less White N*****" at Shorn Cliff because it's an Elvis Costello lyric and so not intended to be racist', in that innocent intentions don't make it okay to use racial slurs.

What's more, it's not really that you don't like there being rules about what you  can and can't wear - if that was your principle, the joke about people going bottomless wouldn't be funny. What you don't like is that the rule goes against what you want to do.

Mate I find it hilarious that you’re trying to apply that mindset to what I’m saying here. And I’m someone who has suffered from serious racism being one of the very few brown people to grow up in Norfolk so it makes me want to disregard your point even more when you try and say me not wearing a top and not caring is the same as people not caring about changing racist route names. That’s some serious strawmanning right there.

And I don’t think the pool example is whatsbouttery, I would say it’s very much exactly the same thing. What’s the difference between me going swimming to a pool topless and climbing at a climbing gym topless?

Like I said, the issue is with them to change their mindset, I’m not doing anything wrong by being topless.

[matt463]

Going back to the OP question. I think most climbing walls have a fairly homogenous offering. There are walls with plastic and sometimes wood on them, setting is good and coffee is usually served. If you have strong feelings about taking your top off, go to any other wall. If not, you can also go to any other wall but the Hangar is good too.

[CapitalistPunter]

Thinking about it, it might be a good thing that people have a wall to choose from where they can be compfy and not have to worry about being unncomfortable around shirtless men. As long as other gyms dont impliment the same rule, and that people are who are get uncompfy migrate to the Hangar, the rule is fine.

I've had a couple of very hot and sweaty sessions at the hangar and it seems to be a pretty warm wall. If you aren't allowed to take your shirt off, there should really be better air conditioning to make up for it.

[abarro81]

I honestly don't see how it's any different to arguing that it's fine to blast music at the crag, on the basis that you like it and other people can leave if they don't.

What you don't like is that the rule goes against what you want to do.

You're right in one way: off the top of my head I can't come up with a philosophically/logically sound argument for drawing the line anywhere other than absolute freedom or absolute restriction (i.e. anything anyone finds intimidating, objectionable or anti-social is unacceptable). (In my defence, my starting position was a "visceral hatred" of the rule - i.e. I never claimed it was intellectually sound.)

Of course you're "wrong" in the sense that both of these would, in reality, be terrible ideas (both in climbing and almost every other area of life, e.g. free speech vs restrictions on free speech) since it would cover everything: climbing tops off, climbing bottoms off, climbing in a g-string, playing music at the crag when others are there, building fires at the crag when others are there, endless shouting and swearing all day really loud and aggressively, whooping "hell yeah" when finishing your 10 year project, joking boisterously at the bottom of the crag with friends, warming up on someone's proj, flashing someone's proj... and many more I've not thought of...  all would have to be totally ok or totally banned, unless you can do a better job of coming up with a philosophically/logically sound argument for drawing arbitrary lines in the middle? So I think it's fair enough to throw that out the window and accept that lines will be somewhat arbitrary, and therefore somewhat based on what we want to do, and/or what "the community" for that activity wants to do. Those who find scantily clad men and ladies intimidating are likely to feel more at home in golf that climbing or surfing. Those who hate pretension and want to dance around semi-naked and off their tits are likely to feel more at home at an outdoor rave than a classical concert. Surely not every activity has to have the same feel and draw the lines in the same place? Wouldn't that be a dull world? Part of what first attracted me to climbing was that it felt different to some more mainstream activities.

I suspect that, coming from a background where outdoor climbing is "real climbing" and indoor climbing is how you train for outdoor climbing and what you do when it rains, my default starting position is to take our arbitrary norms from outdoor climbing and apply them indoors, then tweak in some minor ways, e.g. having music indoors. The Hangar can set comp problems, have lots of rules about not taking your top off, and charge £10 for organic vegan handpicked sundried quinoa if that's the vibe they want... but that's not the vibe I value from climbing, so I'll always vote with my feet and do static rockovers topless at the School or the Foundry while wearing my kneepads.


P.S. Philosophically, I'm fairly sure I have a very strong objection to the claim that intensions don't matter (even though they are clearly not the be all and end all). Though I'm no philosopher.

[abarro81]

Am I also intimidating for younger/newer climbers? (genuine question). M

I think that's an interesting question, but I don't have an answer...

[submaximal gains]

I think a lot of the antipathy to climbing walls enforcing no shirtlessness policies comes from the fact that these rules are enforced by the climbing wall staff rather than by the users of the climbing who find shirtless men/women intimidating. If the request to wear a shirt were coming from the offended person (there may be many reasons for finding shirtless men intimidating and/or interpreting it as an unwelcoming environment), I am sure the request would at least be met with a more empathic response.

Re. how good is the Hangar - I went once and thought the setting was above average and the kilterboard was good. It doesn't have circuit boards, but a friend of mine was able to train endurance quite well there by just climbing on the splatterboard for 30 mins at a time.

Another friend of mine has been banned for removing over-caffeinated sugary drink company stickers from a sponsored problem (he removed them, got dobbed in to a member of staff, spent ~15mins explaining why he felt advertising over-caffeinated sugary drink company was unethical, got banned despite that).

[teestub]

I think a lot of the antipathy to climbing walls enforcing no shirtlessness policies comes from the fact that these rules are enforced by the climbing wall staff rather than by the users of the climbing who find shirtless men/women intimidating. If the request to wear a shirt were coming from the offended person (there may be many reasons for finding shirtless men intimidating and/or interpreting it as an unwelcoming environment), I am sure the request would at least be met with a more empathic response.

I feel like if you’re finding a situation or group of people intimidating or unwelcome, you are unlikely to want to explain yourself directly to them.

[abarro81]

I obviously can't speak for others, but I don't think that's the key source of antipathy for me at least. I imagine if someone asked me directly I'd put my top on but if it happened regularly I'd stop using that wall apart from in winter. If someone asked me at the school I think I'd suggest they might be better off finding a different wall to frequent rather than imposing their desires on all the other members... But I just can't see it happening. I guess nowadays climbing walls are like gyms where they can have very different scenes that suit different people

[Moo]

I guess nowadays climbing walls are like gyms where they can have very different scenes that suit different people

I agree with this and personally people climbing tops of doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I think nowadays I just try to be a bit more aware of who is using the wall and if I was climbing with no shirt on and a couple of lasses came in or a group of kids I'd go and chuck a vest on.

[teestub]

I guess nowadays climbing walls are like gyms where they can have very different scenes that suit different people

Agree, although I’m not sure that the Schoolroom/ West Coast Barbell end of the spectrum walls have a viable business model not involving a wealthy benefactor? Walls need the birthday parties etc to be able to support the training facilities, and that means a welcoming atmosphere I guess.

[36chambers]

You crazy topless cats should try wearing bigger, looser, clothes. It's nicer than being topless and sweaty, and having your sweaty arms sticking to your sweaty body. Obviously, IMHO.

Also, for anyone who goes indoors just to train, if wearing a tee shirt makes it more difficult, then isn't that a good reason to keep it on. Just saying.