[Will Hunt]

Fascinating. The Green Traverse at Shipley Glen is 8a/+. It's hard but not that hard.

[Will Hunt]

The Glen Green Traverse feels like 6C into 6C into 6C with no rests to me (it's important to start from the very bottom which many do not do). I did it after a summer of quick redpoints around 7b+ and it felt harder than any of them but not as hard as the calculator predicts.

[jwi]

The Glen Green Traverse feels like 6C into 6C into 6C with no rests to me (it's important to start from the very bottom which many do not do). I did it after a summer of quick redpoints around 7b+ and it felt harder than any of them but not as hard as the calculator predicts.

Traversers are weird, but I would think 6C to 6C to 6C without rest is hard 8a? Maybe 8a+ it the clips are as desperate as it sounds from the description.

[James Malloch]

The Glen Green Traverse feels like 6C into 6C into 6C with no rests to me (it's important to start from the very bottom which many do not do). I did it after a summer of quick redpoints around 7b+ and it felt harder than any of them but not as hard as the calculator predicts.

I feel like a need to come with you and see where the proper start is sometime!

[Will Hunt]

The lowest point of the boulder, of course. Don't tell me you started elsewhere!

[PeteHukb]

The Glen Green Traverse feels like 6C into 6C into 6C with no rests to me (it's important to start from the very bottom which many do not do). I did it after a summer of quick redpoints around 7b+ and it felt harder than any of them but not as hard as the calculator predicts.

A rare case of Will Hunt overgrading! Unless you're doing it plinthless in which case you might be right. To be fair, with the plinth (and yes, from the start) I'd give it 6A+ into 6C with a medium rest (when you hit the plinth I have a little shake out) which still gives 7b+ route equivalence. (There aren't enough moves to get three boulder grades in there, surely?) 7b+ feels overcooked to me but I think the model is a bit weird for multiple boulder sections (which might be of very different lengths). Fun to play with though.

[James Malloch]

The lowest point of the boulder, of course. Don't tell me you started elsewhere!

My laps definitely weren’t from the correct place, but I’ve done what I felt was the full thing too. Though not sure where that was from exactly. I’lll repeat to make sure this summer!

[Will Hunt]

I can't remember well enough what I did or didn't do with the plinth. I was actually talking about this with Andy Hobson recently and we thought there might be two discrete sections to the plinth, one which is clearly the floor and one which is legit?
I might take the bairn along this afternoon and refresh my memory.

[PeteHukb]

I can't remember well enough what I did or didn't do with the plinth. I was actually talking about this with Andy Hobson recently and we thought there might be two discrete sections to the plinth, one which is clearly the floor and one which is legit?
I might take the bairn along this afternoon and refresh my memory.

Oh interesting. There is indeed a "step" in the plinth that you could use to divide it, but I think that would feel eliminate/artificial, and I'm pretty sure the given grade is for any use of the plinth (which includes a pretty good shake-out). That would certainly explain the discrepancy in our perceptions and in your grade vs the given grade.

[James Malloch]

I can't remember well enough what I did or didn't do with the plinth. I was actually talking about this with Andy Hobson recently and we thought there might be two discrete sections to the plinth, one which is clearly the floor and one which is legit?
I might take the bairn along this afternoon and refresh my memory.

Oh interesting. There is indeed a "step" in the plinth that you could use to divide it, but I think that would feel eliminate/artificial, and I'm pretty sure the given grade is for any use of the plinth (which includes a pretty good shake-out). That would certainly explain the discrepancy in our perceptions and in your grade vs the given grade.

Yeah I’m sure the plinth must be in. I remember trying it without and thinking how hard it felt without - felt about right using it.

[Will Hunt]

Back. The fuck. Around.

 

[PeteHukb]

Back. The fuck. Around.

 

  So the grade calculator says the way you're doing it is 8a/+, but don't worry, it's definitely the rest of us who are climbing it wrong!

[AndyP]

If you look at the green traverse picture in the Cameron Duff volume the plinth (the only bit for which there could be a reasonable question as to whether or not it is in) is fully covered by the ground. So I think it clearly shouldn't be in (although it feels like a massive sand bag without it).

[PeteHukb]

 Thread split?

Now that is interesting. For at least the last ten years, though, using the plinth has been the obvious thing to do, and it happens to coincide with the grade it's given. Would've thought that's now the problem - even if it wasn't the original - until Will next gets up there with a shovel at least.

[Will Hunt]

Handy guide to The Green Traverse to cut out and keep.





I only just looked at this now, but this bloke is doing it right. Feet out left until you can switch feet to the right above the step.

[joeisidle]

Handy guide to The Green Traverse to cut out and keep.





I only just looked at this now, but this bloke is doing it right. Feet out left until you can switch feet to the right above the step.

Small grades for bad beta anyone?

[PeteHukb]

Handy guide to The Green Traverse to cut out and keep.

Oh well this is bollocks. I'm disappointed that my own dear Green Traverse (this thing is a five minute walk from my house) is subject to such a tedious dispute about what's in. I mean, I've seen a lot of people climb this and never seen anyone avoid the lower part of the plinth. Maybe the ground level has changed a bit or maybe just what seemed obvious to the first ascentionists isn't obvious at all to most people now.

What grade should it be for the apparently original way of doing it, Will? Presumably you think 7A isn't even close. Shall we just put two separate entries in future guidebooks/UKC and be done with it, or are you intent on stamping out every recorded ascent of the non-canonical version?

[James Malloch]

Handy guide to The Green Traverse to cut out and keep.





I only just looked at this now, but this bloke is doing it right. Feet out left until you can switch feet to the right above the step.

Na that’s totally in otherwise everything I’ve done is void 

No wonder you find it nails if you eliminate that!

[Fiend]

So once again an otherwise worthy and interesting topic about grade / ethics was derailed into the usual bollox about shite Yorkshire eliminates with shoddy grades, what a surprise 

What is it with you lot, don't you have any decent climbing up there??

[PeteHukb]

Think you'll find that every thread only reaches fulfilment when the topic in question is applied to shite Yorkshire eliminates with shoddy grades. It's the natural order of things.

[Willy]

I've always done it eliminating the plinth Will is on about, it also possible to eliminate the ledge afterwards but that makes it really hard...

[Will Hunt]

I reminded myself of the general sequences yesterday. Can't think how you can arrive at 6A+ for the first bit. From the bottom of the boulder a couple of easy moves to get onto a hanging flake on the top slab, then a slippy traverse on disappointing slopers that feels slightly steeper than vertical. Hobson hasn't actually linked that and says "I'm shit but not so shit that I can't link 6A+". Then steeper moves to get across the plinth. Then another sequence to get to and up the final arete. Brilliant climb, a real trip. 7A+? 7B? Not 7B+ though. Harder than Flapjack Traverse but what isn't?

To me the general standing rule in bouldering is that plinths that rise out of the floor at shallow angle are normally considered to be the floor.

[remus]

To me the general standing rule in bouldering is that plinths that rise out of the floor at shallow angle are normally considered to be the floor.

At what height above the plinth do holds become allowable?

[PeteHukb]

Can't think how you can arrive at 6A+ for the first bit.

It's hard to grade a sequence you know really well but I always felt there wasn't much pulling at all in the section up to the plinth, it's all on the feet and you can move quite quickly between comfortable positions - granted it's a nightmare until you have those figured out.

I'm keen to try what I shall provocatively refer to as "the eliminate method". The holds aren't great on that section over the plinth so I'd be surprised if it didn't feel at least 7B..

To me the general standing rule in bouldering is that plinths that rise out of the floor at shallow angle are normally considered to be the floor.

I just think this sort of rule has too many variables (how shallow? What if there's a gradual angle change?) to be a good one to be applied generally, and I'd far prefer the details to be spelled out for each boulder. This is especially true when the grade is misleading as well, as most people will use that as a guide.

[AndyP]

I reminded myself of the general sequences yesterday. Can't think how you can arrive at 6A+ for the first bit. From the bottom of the boulder a couple of easy moves to get onto a hanging flake on the top slab, then a slippy traverse on disappointing slopers that feels slightly steeper than vertical. Hobson hasn't actually linked that and says "I'm shit but not so shit that I can't link 6A+". Then steeper moves to get across the plinth. Then another sequence to get to and up the final arete. Brilliant climb, a real trip. 7A+? 7B? Not 7B+ though. Harder than Flapjack Traverse but what isn't?

To me the general standing rule in bouldering is that plinths that rise out of the floor at shallow angle are normally considered to be the floor.

I think 6a+ seems about right until about half way through the slopers. You can use the undercuts beneath the flake, and a sort of heel toe jam to make the sequence easier.

I haven't actually linked the whole thing though so maybe it feels different when put together.