Not that I'm a trad climber at all, but I've heard it said that headpointing is generally considered much more acceptable at the higher end of the grading scale/one's personal limit, like if you can say climb E3 you should really not be headpointing HVS, but it's okay for E2/E3.Could it be similar with the ethics of a flash? Like if Pearson was on an E5 or E6 we'd expect his flash to not include an ab, but as it's E10 at least, he's allowed to inspect it first and it still counts? I.e what I acceptable for a flash differs for the seriousness of the route in both general and personal terms.
The problem with allowing abseil inspection within the flash is that it's a movable feast.
No. You can't flex ethics just because you are at the top end. I would say the opposite. If you are a low grade punter like me no-one cares if you say you flashed an E2 when you actually abbed it the day before, but if you are claiming something historically significant you should try be as "ethical" in your reporting as possible. A bit like no-one caring if I take PES to take 5 minutes off my woeful marathon time, but Kipchoge (for random example) will be getting a regular dope test.
This is so interesting! There are all these well established climbers who 100% think their interpretation of the terms of style are correct, and yet their views are different. Who is the arbiter of this debate, the highest source of wisdom??I generally took On The Edge to be the font of all knowledge when I was learning the ropes.
This is so interesting! There are all these well established climbers who 100% think their interpretation of the terms of style are correct, and yet their views are different. Who is the arbiter of this debate, the highest source of wisdom??I generally took On The Edge to be the font of all knowledge when I was learning the ropes. For all these years, I've understood the flash category (in the UK, not anywhere else like Verdon) to describe climbing something first go where you have more information than what you can see of the holds just with your own eyes (and the guidebook description). There is the subset of the 'beta flash', which means of course that there are other types of flash possible. I'd always thought that the line not to cross was pulling on the holds. So abbing down and feeling the positions would not be ok, but brushing and touching the holds would.Having said that, I usually would only have chosen that method if it was an unloved route that needed debris brushing off or some such. And it would need to be specified if boasting about it later!I'm willing to accept that my understanding is wrong, but I'm just saying that's what myself and many others have understood a flash to encompass for all these years.
you don't ab the route and claim a flash
Quoteyou don't ab the route and claim a flashWhat if you ab the route with your eyes closed? I'm sure there were stories about folk doing this back in the day so as not to invalidate their onsight.
I’m hoping we soon get a 10 page thread on the debate whether a send is valid where the boulderer has used a crouch/scrunch start is counted when a sit start has been specified.
for examplehttps://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2013/07/steve_mcclure_flashes_tom_et_je_ris_8b+_verdon-68218
"That stems from a guy who didn’t even flash the route." - AussieGav
I abseiled down the line with Caro to watch her try some of the moves