Barrows, the thing about ground up is surely wrong. Surely you've done a route, moved the clips into the one next door as you lower off, had a look at the holds on the way down (but not pulled on) and then flashed it?
Surely you've done a route, moved the clips into the one next door as you lower off, had a look at the holds on the way down (but not pulled on) and then flashed it? I certainly have.
I read Mat’s comments on the other channel as a bit negative tbh.
Call me naïve, but perhaps if he'd done it, then he might have provided the asterisk? Since he didn't do it, then 'not doing the flash go' is an easier throwaway statement to make without overthinking what qualifies as a flash.
@ El Mocho as per Duncan’s post I guess I’ve done a few routes where I’ve abbed to check gear cos I don’t wanna die then gone from the ground having not really looked v closely at the holds. I’d call that a flash after pre-inspection. Sometimes not much easier than an ‘on-sight’ on a freshly chalked route.
I can safely say that I have never done that and counted it as a flash. Even though I have been known to do all kinds of shady stuff.
I could definitely believe this... but it's still interesting that we can't even agree on what counts as a flash!
This is the nub of it eg. i didn't realise fondling the holds on a boulder problem was ok if you wanted to flash it. I thought you weren't allowed to touch it at all!
I think for me though, thats mopre because it feels wrong to touch the holds before a flash go. I see hanging the draws, looking at holds etc, from whatever angle, as fair game.
Do people have a fourth term in mind to help subdivide the continuum, or would people say that "after abseil inspection" would group into "redpoint" if the big three is the highest level grouping and their view is this isn't a flash?It's unlikely that there's ever a clear line, but if we're using OS, flash and RP as the three I'd have maybe gone for a wider flash bucket than some which starts somewhere where you have more beta than the guide gives you and ends when you've actually tried a move. That being said I'm entirely internally illogical since clipsticking up a route in trainers would feel a bit dodgy, lowering past a route with the clips already in I wouldn't think twice about, and on trad I suspect if I hung in front of a placement trying out which wire fitted I'd start to wonder whereas if someone told me it was an RP3 before I left the ground I wouldn't think twice about that being "flash compliant" beta.
Flippin’ impressive setting off up a vertical 8b+ knowing how far you’re going to fall if you fluff it, however much beta you’ve got.
Quote from: AJM on June 10, 2022, 12:48:48 pmDo people have a fourth term in mind to help subdivide the continuum, or would people say that "after abseil inspection" would group into "redpoint" if the big three is the highest level grouping and their view is this isn't a flash?It's unlikely that there's ever a clear line, but if we're using OS, flash and RP as the three I'd have maybe gone for a wider flash bucket than some which starts somewhere where you have more beta than the guide gives you and ends when you've actually tried a move. That being said I'm entirely internally illogical since clipsticking up a route in trainers would feel a bit dodgy, lowering past a route with the clips already in I wouldn't think twice about, and on trad I suspect if I hung in front of a placement trying out which wire fitted I'd start to wonder whereas if someone told me it was an RP3 before I left the ground I wouldn't think twice about that being "flash compliant" beta.I think it's actually worth coining a term for this sooner rather than later. It maybe seems pedantic now, but technology means this particular patch of water is only going to get muddier. By this I mean people flying drones up routes, or digital guide technology increasing the information available pre-ascent without any need to go near the route. Better that it has a name than worthy bits of climbing get obscured by wrangling over categorisation.
The strategic could even commission their own private beta videos. Perhaps we just need a bigger bin as AJM suggests.
Do you lose the flash if someone else tries the route then makes a replica which you then use to train on prior to doing it?
Has everybody who pulled onto the El Cap Freerider "boulder problem" pitch replica which went on tour of bouldering gyms blown their flash of Freerider?
Maybe a "flash with replica" is something we can expect to see in the next few years.
rather than trying to come up with ever more categories, why not do away with the flash altogether?
Quote from: Dexter link=topic=31928.msg660982# :???:msg660982 date=1654865214Do you lose the flash if someone else tries the route then makes a replica which you then use to train on prior to doing it?Even better, attach your phone to a drone and use a 3d scanning app to make replicas of the holds to put on your replica problem (a la Aidan with the Burden of Dreams holds). Get that sweet flash while having spent months working that mm perfect replica.ed: beaten to it!