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New 9A on the block? (Read 30149 times)

grimer

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#125 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 12:04:45 pm
Maybe Burden of Dreams is to 9A what Indian Face was to E9. So you're claiming all these E9s and 10s, unfortunately some day you'll be honour bound to do IF.

SA Chris

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#126 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 12:10:25 pm
A canny investment would be an Air BnB nearby.

jwi

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#127 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 12:47:28 pm
A canny investment would be an Air BnB nearby.
East Helsinki is less than an hour away.

Is any of the current elite clearly stronger than Nalle was six-seven years ago? (I am not following bouldering with any greater interest then alpine rock climbing for instance, so I would not know). A reasonably quick repeat, like in two trips or so, is maybe only possible for someone who is clearly better than Hukkataival was, so that would be someone who consistently does 8C in a session and sometimes 8C+ in a session too. Is that Shawn Rabatou? (Again, I have no idea)

Yeah, I think it's fair to say the current crop (Shawn, Bosi, Aidan) are stronger than Nalle is/was, though I don't think anyone is currently on 8C+-in-a-session form. Burden is apparently pretty conditions dependent though so I suspect their margin is still small enough that they'll need to put a lot of time in to get form and conditions to line up.
That's what I mean. Not just a tiny bit stronger, immeasurable by bouldering grade, but actually half a grade stronger is likely needed.

Nalle did several proposed 8C in a session around the time he did Burden of Dreams, which gave him confidence to propose 9A iirc. Measurably stronger would be to do a handful of proposed 8C+ in a session.

Wellsy

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#128 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 12:56:25 pm
Well Aidan recently did an 8C "first go" (i.e tried the moves briefly on a rope, got to the top on the first proper try)  so that may count as measurably stronger.

Liamhutch89

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#129 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 01:13:44 pm
JWI - that seems to be a narrow definition of 'measurably better'. Shawn Raboutou is 24 and has already climbed more 8C+ and 9A boulders than Nalle. That is measurably better in a different way. Aidan Roberts recently climbed 8C first try from the bottom after a brief top rope practice whilst looking for something to do after his quick repeat of Alphane 9A. In the final days of this trip he claimed another 8C+ first ascent that has been attempted by many (i.e. not soft). Will Bosi repeated Alphane 9A in less than 2 weeks, made a first ascent in the Peak that he said was harder than Alphane, and has done god knows how many 8C's and above this year (20?), most of them in a session including 8C+ in 2 sessions during his Switzerland trip I believe?

Whether those feats are enough, time will tell. Though the wildcard that might see Burden get repeated quickly is replica training. I'm not sure if Nalle had a replica, but it probably wasn't as good as Aidan's with 3D printed holds on a purpose built board!

AMorris

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#130 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 01:26:50 pm
I'm not sure if Nalle had a replica, but it probably wasn't as good as Aidan's with 3D printed holds on a purpose built board!

He did iirc, but it was a more conventional replica, being just "similar" holds in the right places on a 45 to simulate the moves.

jwi

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#131 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 01:47:53 pm
Liamhutch89, it does not work that way, imho. People are obviously going to do more hard problems or routes if there are more to choose from. Am I a better climber now than when I'd done just a few 8bs? Not at all, just older and living somewhere where there are tons of them.

The best way to measure level is highest repeatable grade flash, in a session, in a few sessions, and after siege. The same goes for routes, a climber's level is their highest repeatable ability to onsight/flash, within two sessions, in a season and after siege. (And Adam Ondra managed to demonstrate the required level for a siege ascent of 9c after he proposed the grade, the same goes for Séb Bouin except for onsight/flash – a style he is notoriously bad at)



Again, it is highly likely that the current crop has better stats than Nalle did, I just don't pay enough attention to know.

Liamhutch89

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#132 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 02:08:48 pm
I don't think Nalle was on better form than Daniel Woods or Jimmy Webb when he first did Burden, so maybe it's not the same for bouldering? Will and Aidan have just repeated a 9A in a matter of weeks so it's not implausible that either of them could go and do Burden on their next trip.

Aidan and Shawn both appear to be psyched for it, so hopefully we'll see who's right over the next year or so!

mr chaz

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#133 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 22, 2022, 02:11:19 pm
Jesus Christ, I just fell into a cyclic wormhole where I was grading hard boulders by the level at which the first ascensionist was climbing, whilst trying to rank climbers by how quickly they repeat the hardest boulders. Pull me oooooouuuuuuuttttttt

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#134 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 01:17:49 pm
By JWI's metrics would that mean that Will Bosi is currently the best boulderer in the world? He has had a good number of flashes in the 8A+ to 8B+ range as of recent, not to mention multiple 8C boulders in a session 9A in 10 sessions and 8C+ in 2.



Hmm, have you got a link? A few places mention him doing the normal start but can't see the sit reported anywhere. Might be getting confused with Sergei Topishko?

 I think you're right, after further checks it appears he hasn't done it yet.

jwi

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#135 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 01:29:57 pm
Will Bosi is currently the best boulderer in the world?

This is my impression exactly, but I am not following the news particularly well and I am well aware that some people do not report stuff ascents that they think are no big deal.

yetix

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#136 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 01:30:58 pm
Tops the 8a.nu rankings too

jwi

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#137 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 01:35:21 pm
I would rather donate money to NRA than give Jens a single click.

Bradders

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#138 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 02:01:26 pm
Is any of the current elite clearly stronger than Nalle was six-seven years ago? (I am not following bouldering with any greater interest then alpine rock climbing for instance, so I would not know). A reasonably quick repeat, like in two trips or so, is maybe only possible for someone who is clearly better than Hukkataival was, so that would be someone who consistently does 8C in a session and sometimes 8C+ in a session too. Is that Shawn Rabatou? (Again, I have no idea)

Yeah, I think it's fair to say the current crop (Shawn, Bosi, Aidan) are stronger than Nalle is/was, though I don't think anyone is currently on 8C+-in-a-session form. Burden is apparently pretty conditions dependent though so I suspect their margin is still small enough that they'll need to put a lot of time in to get form and conditions to line up.

Just on this, I suspect that not only are the very top people operating at a higher level but those below are too. Witness, for example, Nicolai Uznik (15th in the 2022 Boulder World Cup overall ranking, so very much an also-ran albeit he then did very well at the Euro Champs) bashing out Bugeleisen Sit a couple of years ago.



A few years earlier Nalle, in making the first ascent, described it as "the biggest battle I've ever had with a climb, both mentally and physically".

Will Hunt

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#139 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 23, 2022, 03:55:46 pm
I don't disagree with you, but worth mentioning that part of the difference between time to FA and time to repeat will be explained by the difference in difficulty between repeating and FAing. Uznik came to that climb knowing that it was possible, the grade, a sequence that worked, and may have been able to speak to Nalle to get the crucial microbeta about spragging a quark delivered on a plate.

nash1

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#140 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 25, 2022, 11:42:16 am
spragging a quark

Classy reference, love it.

SA Chris

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#141 Re: New 9A on the block?
November 25, 2022, 11:43:47 am
bleedin' bivvy ledge. etc

 

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