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Small camming devices 2022 (Read 2388 times)

jwi

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Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 05:40:26 pm
As I looked through our small camming devices I noticed that they are all really old, mostly in bad state, or Black Diamond c3s which I don't like at all for limestone. They seem worse than useless in limestone pockets e.g.

Hence I am looking to update my rack with at least on set of modern small camming devices. I do not trust my failing eye-sight to judge the placement of anything smaller than a blue alien so that is basically the minimum size I am looking for.

Hence I am looking for something like Totem Basic/Alien blue-green-yellow and possibly red, or BD Z4 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 (yellow blue grey). (I have the old C4 0.3 and up and they seem to be in good enough nick).

So in the year of our lord 2022, what cams should we get? I imagine that they will be used to add protection on long limestone routes or combined with someone else's rack on more traditional long routes.

cheque

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#1 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 06:15:52 pm
I’ve only ever owned two types of micro cam, both of which are fairly recently designed and still available-

DMM Dragonflies are like a really well made version of Aliens. I’m not familiar with the colour coding of Aliens but I do know that a black Alien is the same as a red Dragonfly so you can work up from there I think.

The current Wild Country Zero Friends have a slightly unpolished feel to their build for cams that first came out in the last couple of years (the lobes don’t have any kind of streamlining design flourishes or lightening holes so I always feel like they’re a prototype) but are sturdy enough. Their USP is that their heads are very narrow and they go up to green Camalot/ Dragon/ modern-day Friend size (ie. quite a bit bigger than what you’d normally describe as micro-cam size) so they can be very useful for pockets that are of almost square dimensions.

Paul B

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#2 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 06:29:25 pm
I'd be buying the Totem Basics personally.

For our 2013 trip we had two sets, C3 and Mastercams and I'd reach for the latter first every time. They also came in offsets which were a real game changer on the Yosemite granite.

The basics have some improvements over the Mastercams but they weren't readily available at the time. Above the orange I found the stem to get a bit floppy.

cheque

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#3 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 06:58:04 pm
They don’t make Totem Basics any more.

jwi

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#4 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 07:07:32 pm
Fixe makes the aliens though. They seem to be in stock online with Au vieux campeur.

Paul B

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#5 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 07:14:40 pm
Fixe makes the aliens though. They seem to be in stock online with Au vieux campeur.

I saw a sponsored hero of this parish take delivery of a box and was more than mildly jealous!

mrjonathanr

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#6 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 07:41:48 pm
The guys in the Madrid climbng shop by the Rastro were not impressed by the Fixe versions when I chatted to them. Make of that what you will. I use original aliens, a mastercam and a dragonfly in the smallest sizes. They all seem good in use.

petejh

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#7 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 10:48:29 pm
Climbed with some BD Z4s recently and thought they were v.good.

I had C3's for ages and never really liked them, found they walked too readily and never inspired confidence in their holding power.. will be glad to sell them on and get some Z4s. I have 3 of the smaller mastercams which despite being old are still a good design. I think they're a perfectly good small cam - poor-man's Z4. Never tried the Totem basics.

Can't beat Totems in the normal sizes imo. I've a double rack of cams - set of BD ultralights and a mix of Totems and DMM dragons. Slowly selling my DMM's and replacing with a full rack of Totems.

jwi

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#8 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 29, 2022, 11:08:08 pm
Given petejh's reply, my general distrust of Fixe and the mixed reviews they get, and the reply on fb from my old partner in the mountains I'm strongly leaning towards the z4s. Should I get the 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 to complement C4 from 0.3 and up, or is it better to get 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3?

Fultonius

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#9 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 09:59:22 am
I've had the green and red Z4s for a year now.

I still have a C3 green which only comes out on special occasions now. (some routes it's the only thing that works).

In the past I've tried X4s which I found too floppy (same with original wild country zeros). Both for placing and, more frustratingly when cleaning. They just seem to get stuck behind small rugosities really badly.

I've never really got on with Aliens / Totem Basics ( but I realise this is probably mainly personal and just not "used" to the sizes and range.

On the other hand black and blue totems are my "go-to" cam for those sizes. Every time I climb with someone who's not used them before they end up placing them and saying "glad I had that black totem"....

Yellow totem is also nice as a double of the grey camalot.


jwi

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#10 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 10:14:50 am
I tried the Totems once, and there's no doubt I would go for a set or two if I climbed more trad. They do seem significantly better than everything else for the mid-range

Fultonius

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#11 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 10:37:13 am
Just realised I didn't elaborate much on the Z4s. Not fallen on any yet but so far they seem an improvement on other small cams in getting the right amount of flexibility. Stiff enough to place without too much faff, but bendy enough not to twist/torque out of placements.

Totems are still unrivaled in this sense. When you pull the triggers the whole mechanism stiffens up (ideal) and relaxes when released. I'm pretty sure this was just an accidental positive side effect of other design decisions but it's (IMO) one of the best attributes, that and the holding power.

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#12 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 11:04:04 am
Sexy thread JWI (incidentally my first ever thread on UKC 2 decades ago was asking about recommendations for BD micros vs Aliens). I have nothing useful to add as I just have C3s, with the smallest X4s for sketchy stuff and smallest old C4s(??) as a back-up. I'd have thought the C3s would be okay in limestone pockets as they've got narrow heads and the stiff stem would allow them to be wiggled in precisely (in horizontal pockets at least), but what do I know?? Small hexes are quite good when twisted in to small pockets  ;) Or tri-cams....

The Z4s do seem good and BD do have some experience refining designs... Totem Cams always confuse me with stems and cables everywhere, like wrestling with a small plastic octopus....I can see how they would be good for pockets (like a better C3 - narrow head and stiff-ish stem).

If anyone wants to get right of their C3s, feel free to post to Chez Fiend, Slamchester, as mine are getting a bit trashed  :whistle:

T_B

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#13 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 12:30:59 pm
Back in the day Wild Country used to put their camming angle of 13.75 degrees front and centre of their marketing as having more holding power than BD’s 15 degrees. That crucial bit of info seems to have disappeared now. Maybe they’ve increased the angle to achieve more range?

I’ve got new versions of the bigger WC cams and have used the smaller ones as well as my Aliens. I have used a mate’s Z3s recently.

If/when I look at replacing my Aliens I will consider the camming angle. I’ve witnessed Camelots ripping out of parallel sided cracks more than once and very recently someone managed to strip 3 Camelots out of Right Eliminate at Curbar. I won’t go into the details, but safe to say I’m not sure I am as confident about camelots versus other cams. They look sexy though.

I’d never trust a camming device in limestone.

jwi

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#14 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 12:49:40 pm
The original CCH Aliens had a very aggressive camming angle (>15 degrees for sure) combined with soft aluminium with high friction on the cams to offset the steep angle. This worked very well in irregular granite but was downright dangerous in rocks that formed slick regular sided cracks. Mine also totally deformed after many years of use and look nothing like logarithmic spirals anymore.

I think most manufacturers of Aliens offshoots have dialed down the camming angle when they realised how easy they rip in test jigs. But we rarely place small cams in slick parallell sided cracks, and I always felt that the bigger span well offseted having less holding power for most real life situations. That said, the only cams that ever ripped for me were aliens (and c3s in soft rock... pulled straight out without even slowing me down). I have never had C4s pulling out on me

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#15 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 01:07:58 pm
I've used various (Totem Basic, Z4, Dragonflies, WC Zeros) but own the newer Alien revolution. These hold well in slick lime (although nothing holds well in proper parallel or flaring lime IMO, it always needs a taper or similar to allow the cam to engage) and I will happily fall on them when placed well. Z4's are lovely to use but don't seem to hold quite as well although they don't get chewed up as fast.

Fultonius

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#16 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 01:14:39 pm
 I can vouch for the holding power of Totems over X4s. 1000s of metres of sitting on them in all sorts of flares (Zodiac, WFLT and Half Dome) convinced us there was a noticeable difference.

I also took a big whipper onto a blue or yellow totem (can't remember) in a shallow vertical slot on The Clearances which was enough to convince Smally (not a guy prone to jump on the latest bandwagon) to get some after being sure he was going to need to call the chopper while I was mid air....


duncan

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#17 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 01:51:05 pm
Back in the day Wild Country used to put their camming angle of 13.75 degrees front and centre of their marketing as having more holding power than BD’s 15 degrees. That crucial bit of info seems to have disappeared now. Maybe they’ve increased the angle to achieve more range?

I’ve got new versions of the bigger WC cams and have used the smaller ones as well as my Aliens. I have used a mate’s Z3s recently.

If/when I look at replacing my Aliens I will consider the camming angle. I’ve witnessed Camelots ripping out of parallel sided cracks more than once and very recently someone managed to strip 3 Camelots out of Right Eliminate at Curbar. I won’t go into the details, but safe to say I’m not sure I am as confident about camelots versus other cams. They look sexy though.


This. Camalots are designed for parallel sandstone or granite splitters.

Get original Totems from Green down to black and try to source a S/H blue alien.

mrjonathanr

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#18 Re: Small camming devices 2022
May 30, 2022, 04:55:49 pm
I have one Totem, it's like a bigger, better Alien. When I can justify buying/replacing cams it'll be Totems.
However, in small sizes, the WC Zero Friends look good and very similar to Aliens in design.

 

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