[CapitalistPunter]

A great new highball from Andy Tillotson at Lawrencefield called "Antihistamine", & a less inspiring but harder problem on a boulder to the left of the bloc called "Adam The Ant" from Adam Wheeler (Massive punter).

"Antihistamine" does the already established "Anthill Mantel" over the ledge, but continues up the slab as a scary highball which tops out onto the shelf where "Boonapi" is. There is also another project problem which goes up the left side of the wall and leads into a tricky mantel. Please leave this until it has been climbed because of the effort put into cleaning it by the prospective first ascentionist. A scary middle line is also doable and ready to be claimed.

"Adam The Ant" starts with a right hand on a sharp horrid micro crimp, and a left hand low on the arete. A series of bumps to a guppy and sharp pinch set you up to do a final slap to a good hold.

Image & vid of "Antihistamine"

Pic: https://gyazo.com/023ae799d2036a98fcc0dda1c2973401
Vid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW_DwOTHoFE


Image & vid of "Adam The Ant:"

Pic: https://gyazo.com/4a3283e288ac499e46ffffc0dc287583
Vid: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hP3gl59lAOQ
The mingin shite right hand crimp  : https://gyazo.com/8863202c3d50e23b48e19217380a19d7

[highrepute]

Had a great climb down Lawrencefield doing these and few other things last night. Thanks for putting in the effort cleaning, climbing and publicising them.

[CapitalistPunter]

Great stuff mate! Credit for the cleaning goes to Andy and Will Riley

[Jacqusie]

There is also another project problem which goes up the left side of the wall and leads into a tricky mantel. Please leave this until it has been climbed because of the effort put into cleaning it by the prospective first ascentionist.

Checked this out today and looks decent, good effort on the cleaning of that part of the crag. Just be aware that someone might climb it thinking it's already done, such is the perils of cleaning lines which makes them obvious when working them!

There's quite a few chalk dabs along that run of walls down Lawrencefield now

[CapitalistPunter]

There is also another project problem which goes up the left side of the wall and leads into a tricky mantel. Please leave this until it has been climbed because of the effort put into cleaning it by the prospective first ascentionist.

Checked this out today and looks decent, good effort on the cleaning of that part of the crag. Just be aware that someone might climb it thinking it's already done, such is the perils of cleaning lines which makes them obvious when working them!

There's quite a few chalk dabs along that run of walls down Lawrencefield now

The left hand problem from Will was done today at 6B! A fairly sketchy topout

[Smizard]

Did the left hand line on Saturday - did name it anti-matter but hadn’t added it yet….so snooze you lose I guess

[CapitalistPunter]

Did the left hand line on Saturday - did name it anti-matter but hadn’t added it yet….so snooze you lose I guess

Prick

[Smizard]

Ahhh the classic anger of someone else climbing on a rock with incorrect ethics.

Just read the rest of this post properly instead of last comment, - apologies on that one, I’d thought the line to be right was to be left alone was that which is now antihistamine…Left side just seemed logical at the time with the chalk patches…there’s no claim here - like I say you snooze you lose (for me - not you) good work on the cleaning and speedy logging.

[CapitalistPunter]

Ahhh the classic anger of someone else climbing on a rock with incorrect ethics.

Just read the rest of this post properly instead of last comment, - apologies on that one, I’d thought the line to be right was to be left alone was that which is now antihistamine…Left side just seemed logical at the time with the chalk patches…there’s no claim here - like I say you snooze you lose (for me - not you) good work on the cleaning and speedy logging.

Prick

[Smizard]

Don’t cry too much. I’ll hand myself in to the crag police so justice can be served

[shark]

Dial it down guys

[CapitalistPunter]

The second prick was unnecessary, apologies.

[highrepute]

Ahhh the classic anger of someone else climbing on a rock with incorrect ethics.

Just read the rest of this post properly instead of last comment, - apologies on that one, I’d thought the line to be right was to be left alone was that which is now antihistamine…Left side just seemed logical at the time with the chalk patches…there’s no claim here - like I say you snooze you lose (for me - not you) good work on the cleaning and speedy logging.

There's no claim but you called it Anti-matter? Better get your story straight before you hand yourself in.

[Fiend]

I took that post to mean he'd rescinded his claim after realising it was actually the closed project??

[kac]

It might not be a claim to name it but i took it as a claim of first climbing it. Isn't that what counts with first ascents. Pretty shoddy to retro claim like this in my opinion.

[Will Hunt]

Isn't it just a case of somebody finding some clean rock with chalk on it and climbing it, then realising that it was supposed to be closed (fair enough, it probably took loads of cleaning). They can't unclimb the rock but they seem to be saying that Will's name should stand?

[CapitalistPunter]

Isn't it just a case of somebody finding some clean rock with chalk on it and climbing it, then realising that it was supposed to be closed (fair enough, it probably took loads of cleaning). They can't unclimb the rock but they seem to be saying that Will's name should stand?

There was no chalk on the problem. The issue is more that he read the post which says about the closed project, but then went and did it anyway. Sure he says he misread the post, but come on...

I'm not personally upset about it, but considering how much cleaning that took from Will its just disrespectful.

[CapitalistPunter]

Ahhh the classic anger of someone else climbing on a rock with incorrect ethics.

Just read the rest of this post properly instead of last comment, - apologies on that one, I’d thought the line to be right was to be left alone was that which is now antihistamine…Left side just seemed logical at the time with the chalk patches…there’s no claim here - like I say you snooze you lose (for me - not you) good work on the cleaning and speedy logging.

I also only read the first sentence of this post when I responded, so sorry on that one.

[kac]

Yes will no great crime and easy to do. But why bother posting if you don't want to claim it. Appreciate these may all fall into the probably done years ago category but if not doesn't it just take away the feeling of doing a first ascent from the person who put the effort into cleaning it. Would you be bothered about claiming a problem you know someone had done a few days before?

[CapitalistPunter]

Yes will no great crime and easy to do. But why bother posting if you don't want to claim it. Appreciate these may all fall into the probably done years ago category but if not doesn't it just take away the feeling of doing a first ascent from the person who put the effort into cleaning it. Would you be bothered about claiming a problem you know someone had done a few days before?

Andy and the others did some research and even got in touch with Jon, who said he knew of no problems that go up there. There was also a tree growing out of the rock in the middle and it was very dirty so it seems unlikely to have been done before but who knows! If it was done beforehand then obviously it would be disappointing to the cleaners, but at least it would mean some good problems are available to climb once again. Sure it could take away the feeling from the first ascentionist, but then again they should have put effort into publicising it if they really cared, plus it would be very easy to reinstate it as their problem.

This case with the closed project being stolen is only really an issue if Smizard saw the bit of the post about the closed project, then went and nabbed it as his. He said that he misread the post so I guess we will just have to take his word for it. Damage is done though so oh well, It's respectful he apologised and also seems to have given the naming rights back to will, plus it was an easy mistake to make assuming it was a mistake.

As for why I posted about the problem. I thought it would be less likely for people to come and steal the problem if it was known online that it was a closed project, but I guess that worked against us since it was nabbed. It was also expected that Will would get on the problem sooner, but it took quite a while. Also, the post was of course to get traffic on Antihistamine which it did.

[Smizard]

To summarise- I poorly read the original post and thought the right hand line was the one waiting to be done (antihistamine) I saw a post on insta of it being done - I intended to then visit and do the problem.

When I arrived there and did antihistamine there was chalk on the left line (line in question) - a couple of hand prints after doing antihistamine i did the problem to the left …my mate said it’s not listed after browsing ukc and started having a laugh and joke about Ant related puns (beginnings of the antimatter saga) before moving on down the crag…no intentional sly behaviour.

When I commented on here I realised my error after reading the post - I have no interest in claiming anything …in this case the person who cleaned and saw the line and registered on UKC takes the FA.

I am not in any way out to be robbing peoples hard work - just a climber pottering around on rocks who is clearly poor at reading things throughly

Once again - apologies. I had a leaf dab whilst climbing anyway meaning the ascent was not legit leaving all FA rights to the rightful claim.

[Smizard]

Appreciate the more forgiving vibes - if I ever see will down the crag I’ll buy him a pint to clear things up.

[Will Hunt]

I think we're probably at odds in our view. Lots of talk in the thread about claims and withdrawing claims that seems a bit at odds with my understanding of what an FA is.

Would you be bothered about claiming a problem you know someone had done a few days before?

I took that post to mean he'd rescinded his claim after realising it was actually the closed project??

Regardless of who "claims" what and when, the FA record is supposed to be a cold, objectively factual record of who did something first. So if someone had done something before me then of course I couldn't "claim" it, because that's been and gone.

Pretty shoddy to retro claim like this in my opinion.

Yeah, retroclaims aren't nice but they happen. I've a lot more sympathy in this instance where it has all come to light fairly soon after the event and seems like a genuine accident; it stings a bit more when the retroclaim is from years ago but the FA never bothered to record the climb. I suppose Smizard could have kept quiet but it wouldn't have changed the facts of the situation.

Retroclaims (I'm not sure this counts as retro as the two ascents were done on consecutive days!) are an occupational hazard when trying new stuff that isn't cutting edge, especially if you advertise the rock you've just cleaned before you're finished developing.

[CapitalistPunter]

To summarise- I poorly read the original post and thought the right hand line was the one waiting to be done (antihistamine) I saw a post on insta of it being done - I intended to then visit and do the problem.

When I arrived there and did antihistamine there was chalk on the left line (line in question) - a couple of hand prints after doing antihistamine i did the problem to the left …my mate said it’s not listed after browsing ukc and started having a laugh and joke about Ant related puns (beginnings of the antimatter saga) before moving on down the crag…no intentional sly behaviour.

When I commented on here I realised my error after reading the post - I have no interest in claiming anything …in this case the person who cleaned and saw the line and registered on UKC takes the FA.

I am not in any way out to be robbing peoples hard work - just a climber pottering around on rocks who is clearly poor at reading things throughly

Once again - apologies. I had a leaf dab whilst climbing anyway meaning the ascent was not legit leaving all FA rights to the rightful claim.

No worries mate mistakes were made! sorry for being rude.

I don't think you can go back on being the first ascentionist though unfortunately but I appreciate the thought haha. The best compromise is probably just for the problems to be done as your first accent, but with the name Will gave.

We also noticed there was chalk on the left arete of the bloc when we got to the crag the other day, but Will did his problem without the arete. Maybe his was an eliminate first ascent in that case 

[Smizard]

If I’m to remain completely honest I didn’t touch the arête just stood up to the finger ledge off a pebble  - there was a few climbers on the crag when we arrived already…as stated there was already quite a few hand pats of chalk on the rock when we arrived. Potentially had already been up some of the lines.

I guess what it boils down to is either  :

It’s the individuals feelings to being the FA (I can only offer my apologies and a token beer)

or

Having there name in the guide book or UKC as a record of the name of the person who spent the time to find/climb it …for me I won’t put my name to the problem on UKC as I didn’t put any of the work in and unintentionally stepped on another man’s toes during my potterings. (Believe it or not - I do stand by quite a lot of crag ethics)

Definitely the name stands and unless your going to attach the smizard tag to the FA it’d make more sense to put it to the name of the lad who cleaned it up and went back with the intentions.

I did appreciate the good work of development in the area and so did the lads I was out with so for that thank you to those blokes.