Really? The entire first paragraph is devoted to talking about how much better pads have got. Reads like sour grapes to me
Saw a video of a cuddly community Dr once called Harold Shipman, had a comforting fluffy beard and everything. Looked a lovely chap.
Quote from: abarro81 on May 17, 2022, 11:11:17 pmReally? The entire first paragraph is devoted to talking about how much better pads have got. Reads like sour grapes to meGiven that the title of the piece is “Lomba's 9b knee pad technique and leg strength story” that seems reasonable
Quote from: shark on May 18, 2022, 07:51:07 amQuote from: abarro81 on May 17, 2022, 11:11:17 pmReally? The entire first paragraph is devoted to talking about how much better pads have got. Reads like sour grapes to meGiven that the title of the piece is “Lomba's 9b knee pad technique and leg strength story” that seems reasonable The title will be from Jens
Seems like it's just about how you read Steve's comments I didn't read it as him having a go at anyone or dismissing the kneebar tech. It's obviously not a straightforward knee and requires significant skill + training to make it work.
I didn't read it as him having a go at anyone or dismissing the kneebar tech.
Quote from: remus on May 18, 2022, 10:02:22 amSeems like it's just about how you read Steve's comments I didn't read it as him having a go at anyone or dismissing the kneebar tech. It's obviously not a straightforward knee and requires significant skill + training to make it work.Yeah, likewise. And doesn't sound like it warrants a downgrade either based on Eder's explanation; it's just a different way of doing it. You either; a) develop your anaerobic capacity in the forearms as per Steve; or,b) develop your leg and toe strength to use the knee bar as per Eder.One isn't necessarily easier than the other.
Quote from: Bradders on May 18, 2022, 10:09:22 amQuote from: remus on May 18, 2022, 10:02:22 amSeems like it's just about how you read Steve's comments I didn't read it as him having a go at anyone or dismissing the kneebar tech. It's obviously not a straightforward knee and requires significant skill + training to make it work.Yeah, likewise. And doesn't sound like it warrants a downgrade either based on Eder's explanation; it's just a different way of doing it. You either; a) develop your anaerobic capacity in the forearms as per Steve; or,b) develop your leg and toe strength to use the knee bar as per Eder.One isn't necessarily easier than the other.This is interesting isn't it? People have been doing the former for decades but I've never heard of anyone going to quite the lengths that Eder has to train knees. Perhaps they have, just never set it out publicly.It's likely that kneebarring is still in its emergent stage. Perhaps Eder's kneebarring seems like "9b standard" to us primitives, but will be seen as more lowly in the future as people get better and better at hanging off their legs.
Ondra is the other notable example, for the kneebars on Silence. Sure he said something like initially he couldn't use them, and eventually got up to taking hands off for c. 4 mins!
This is interesting isn't it? People have been doing the former for decades but I've never heard of anyone going to quite the lengths that Eder has to train knees. Perhaps they have, just never set it out publicly.It's likely that kneebarring is still in its emergent stage. Perhaps Eder's kneebarring seems like "9b standard" to us primitives, but will be seen as more lowly in the future as people get better and better at hanging off their legs.
I’m assuming Barrows has also spent a lot of time hanging upside down with his knees stuffed behind a campus board!
Don't think I've ever heard anyone grumble about kneeBARS on existing routes. KneePADS certainly.
Don't think I've ever heard anyone grumble about kneeBARS on existing routes. KneePADS certainly. One is a technique, and complaining about it ridiculous
but like stopwatches are now common, I suspect that in another 10 years people retiring pads to "training pads" after a season will be common and calf raises will be standard.
we can argue plenty about the merits of training by eliminating technique etc
Quote from: Paul B on May 18, 2022, 01:43:15 pmwe can argue plenty about the merits of training by eliminating technique etcMy standard answer when someone asks me why I would use a knee indoors, or use an easier sequence than the intended one indoors, or use a knee on boulder links that are mostly for training is "I'm not training to be shit at sport climbing or cave-style bouldering as practiced since the 2010s. "...
Still waiting for little hard plastic heel spikes on rock shoes as the next boat-rocking evolution
Still waiting for little hard plastic heel spikes on rock shoes as the next boat-rocking evolution. Dunno how much they'll help on the Walker Spur.
I think you may have misread or misunderstood my post... the middle of the 3 examples didn't even have anything to do with knees (padded or otherwise). And the other two didn't even mention pads, just knees, which AFAIK were invented prior to 2010. Either that or I just imagined going to Europe and everyone kneebaring the tufas before that? And everyone kneebaring at the cornice for that matter. Even if you were a pad hater there'd still be good reason to practice kneebar technique. Quote from: petejh on May 18, 2022, 02:56:40 pmStill waiting for little hard plastic heel spikes on rock shoes as the next boat-rocking evolutionI take it you've never tried an anasazi on a spike before. But god it gets pointing that out to you again P.S. I'll remember to do more indoor eliminates and no-knee link ups at Griff's to train for adventure choss and winterneering I have genuinely no clue how the point you're trying to make there relates to whether "training" by technique eliminates is a good idea or just crap training if what you want to get better at is the vast majority of rock climbing (i.e. not pinches wall eliminates)! It's a long time since I climbed a Gogarth E5, but IIRC the ability to climb sequences efficiently was more useful on trad than the ability to campus.
My standard answer when someone asks me why I would use a knee indoors, or use an easier sequence than the intended one indoors, or use a knee on boulder links that are mostly for training is "I'm not training to be shit at rock climbing"...
Was merely a light-hearted attempt to point out that when you said you train knees so as not to be shit at 'rock climbing' your definition was one very specific type of rock climbing. Seems it wasn't taken in the spirit it was sent. Never mind.
I seem to keep taking the top layer of skin off my thighs when repeatedly trying kneebars I have to push really hard on. This then scabs and takes a week or 2 to heal. Is this normal or is there a way to mitigate it? I'm wearing the Send pad
I've had a session on a boulder with quite a hard knee (for me at least) and will probably find better positions naturally, but is there anything that can be done to train this specific type of knee where you are pressing inwards with the thigh rather than up and into something? On the vid below, just working the moves, I fall out of the knee quite abruptly as it needs a lot of sidewards pressure. I'm sure this is mostly technique but has anyone trained it?
“ I fall out of the knee quite abruptly as it needs a lot of sidewards pressure. ”You seem to fall out of the knee bar as you reach with your right hand. Maybe you are ever so slightly opening your hip at that moment. Maybe try driving your right hip towards the knee bar and try not to look for the handhold just feel for it while looking the other way.
The other day I went back to the crag where I learned to sport climb in the early 00s, a small but brilliant granite crag a stone's throw south of the polar circle.
Quote from: jwi on August 17, 2022, 08:51:51 amThe other day I went back to the crag where I learned to sport climb in the early 00s, a small but brilliant granite crag a stone's throw south of the polar circle.Completely off-topic but have you climbed in the Kvalya region north of Tromso? I was recently looking through the guidebook, considering a trip. If I go I'll be trad climbing (or possibly winter climbing) and won't be kneebarring..