[cheque]

Probably worth quoting this for everyone contributing multi-stage training plans:

Committed to go on a trip to Mingulay at the start of June

[SA Chris]

Never underestimate the power of a chalked up route, a bit of beta, or a recommendation.

If I was you I'd be tapping into the hive mind here for recommended routes across a spread of grades.

[Will Hunt]

Probably worth quoting this for everyone contributing multi-stage training plans:

Committed to go on a trip to Mingulay at the start of June

From what little I know of you Simon, I think the most enjoyment will come from this trip by doing some long trad pitches, working back up through the grades to get your eye in and figure out where you're at, and going out there with a goal of enjoying fantastic routes in spectacular positions regardless of the grade. If you pin your hopes on an unrealistic grade then you're going to end up feeling dejected or enduring faff/retreats.

[GazM]

Sula on Dun Mingulay at E2 is a very obvious one to do. The classic intro to that wall. I've only done one of the E3s there (Sirens, which has inexplicably gone up to E4 in the SMC guide) and that was great too.

I'd second what Fultonius says. In my experience (3 trips to Pabbay and Mingulay) with a bit of trad mileage under your belt before you go you'll find the climbing steady. It's generally steep and positive.

The main challenge for someone with less recent experience is likely to be the amazing exposure and logistical faff of finding routes, rigging abseil, being comfortable in committing situations etc. Basically the proper sea-cliff adventurous experience. If you're  comfortable in the environment I reckon someone with Shark's pedigree will find the climbing fine.

[shark]

From what little I know of you Simon, I think the most enjoyment will come from this trip by doing some long trad pitches, working back up through the grades to get your eye in and figure out where you're at, and going out there with a goal of enjoying fantastic routes in spectacular positions regardless of the grade. If you pin your hopes on an unrealistic grade then you're going to end up feeling dejected or enduring faff/retreats.

I’m not remotely aiming for a grade on this trip or even working up the grades but I am aiming to readjust my head so I have reasonable faith in my gear so the experience is more enjoyable. Felt I was getting there at some points on Darius.

[shark]

Sula on Dun Mingulay at E2 is a very obvious one to do. The classic intro to that wall.

That’s the only route Ive heard of there. Twid recommended it to me last week on FB. He did the FA ground up and was expecting it to be E5/6 !

[Fiend]

DO NOT GO BOULDERING
DO NOT DO SHORT PE
DO NOT CLIMB LIME

As people have said above, the poor cat is getting skinned left right and centre. OTOH it should come as no surprise that having a massive buffer of sport fitness (especially onsighting) / bouldering strength makes trad feel much easier as long as you've remember how to fiddle in nuts and overcam camalots, and anyone who says otherwise either has that massive buffer (whether they've chosen to apply it or not), or has forgotten how to fiddle in nuts. Having zero fear whatsoever is also a valid option.

[GazM]

Sula on Dun Mingulay at E2 is a very obvious one to do. The classic intro to that wall.

That’s the only route Ive heard of there. Twid recommended it to me last week on FB. He did the FA ground up and was expecting it to be E5/6 !

I can believe it. It's pretty intimidating to look at but turns out to be covered in buckets!

[Johnny Brown]

The main challenge for someone with less recent experience is likely to be the amazing exposure and logistical faff of finding routes, rigging abseil, being comfortable in committing situations etc.

This. Despite having 'some experience' I found a couple of the abs on Pabbay almost paralysingly exposed. Vertical or free hanging for 100 full metres above the grey Atlantic, and you struggle to see if the rope even reaches because the end is so far away = the most scared I've been in years. The climbing was mostly fine and is often easier than it looks due to all the mini jugs. Prophecy of Drowning for example would probably E1 if you didn't have to do the ab.

[teestub]

Big Grades for Bad Abseils?

[mrjonathanr]

Big Grades for Bad Abseils?

A3 or A4?

[andy moles]

I'm going to Pabbay and Mingulay in a few weeks too, I'm hoping to find it a bit less gripping than on my last visits 12-13 years ago.

Worth reading Kev Howett's account in the Great Sea Cliffs book of abseiling into Creag na Beiste on Berneray, where a 200m rope didn't reach the bottom and he had no prussiks... 

[Steve Crowe]

The main challenge for someone with less recent experience is likely to be the amazing exposure and logistical faff of finding routes, rigging abseil, being comfortable in committing situations etc.

This. Despite having 'some experience' I found a couple of the abs on Pabbay almost paralysingly exposed. Vertical or free hanging for 100 full metres above the grey Atlantic, and you struggle to see if the rope even reaches because the end is so far away = the most scared I've been in years. The climbing was mostly fine and is often easier than it looks due to all the mini jugs. Prophecy of Drowning for example would probably E1 if you didn't have to do the ab.

Just wanted to “like” everything you wrote.



but while I’m here…

We had fun with that 100m free abseil into the Grey Wall Recess. It was a blustery day but we were keen to climb so we tried to throw the ab rope over the edge into the void but instead the wind whipped the rope over our heads and back towards the campsite. After multiple failures we gave up!

[GazM]

Grey Wall Recess was in my mind when reading JB's post. Won't forget that one in a hurry.

[Duncan campbell]

Pretty spicy that one innit. When I first went to P&M we didn’t have any ropes longer than about 80m.

On day 1 we had to pass a knot freehanging halfway down the prophecy of drowning abseil

when we did spit in paradise at grey wall recess I had to abseil to the bottom of our longest rope, take the half rope off my back and attach it to the bottom. The wind picked up and I remember spinning around quite quickly. Pulling the rope once we were all down felt super committing!

I was hoping that being a rope tech might help on my return in a few weeks but judging by JB’s anecdotes it might not… maybe I’ll bring my ASAP 

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah, the single 9mm static didn't help! Double 11s might have been different, as might not being a manager desk jockey nowadays.

we tried to throw the ab rope over the edge into the void but instead the wind whipped the rope over our heads and back towards the campsite. After multiple failures we gave up!

The cavers/ rope access trick is to tie a big knot in the end, then feed it and the rest of the rope into an empty bag, then hang the bag off your belay loop. You kneed to be confident it is long enough though!

[Will Hunt]

Then it's decided. If I ever go to Pabbay I'm taking a 1000m ab rope.

[Duncan campbell]

Just imagining those spindly little legs carrying such a rope. 

[remus]

Just imagining those spindly little legs carrying such a rope. 

Will Hunt's Pabbay Diaries, Day 2

Porters made it to Advanced Base Camp with the ab rope today. Slow going but proud of team. Think I can see good spot for camp 1, bit far at ~250m away but if we can push there tomorrow we'll be in good shape to get to kit to top of grey walls recess by day 8. Hoping the good weather window continues but got forecast on sat phone and monsoon season is fast approaching so window may close before we have chance to ab in, would be great shame. Crushing for team.

[SA Chris]

.....and ready with pencil to downgrade any routes I actually do.

[Fultonius]

I'd gladly join the exped as a porter for the Great siR Will of Hunt's palanquin.

[jwi]

I have nothing useful to add to this topic, and so far my preparations for getting back into trad have been limited to lubricating some old cams. I am, however, following the topic with interest and my hope is that by staying just within my normal lactate threshold or thereabouts I will have enough time to fiddle in gear. I will report back.

[Will Hunt]

Since the 21st we have had a continuous gale from W.S.W. and S.W. We had fuel to make two cups of Lattice Protein Chai apiece and bare food for two days on the 20th. Every day we have been ready to start for our depot 11 metres away, but outside the door of the tent it remains a scene of anti-connies. I do not think we can hope for any better things now. We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker, of course, and the end cannot be far.

It seems a pity, but I do not think I shall see another max hangs session.

[Steve Crowe]

“ Also, abseil off the top of Gordale or soemhwere scary, oherwise you'll fill your pants going off Dun Mingulay.”

If you can’t abseil in you’ll be very limited so this is a priority. Maybe we should be discussing rigging, multiple rope protectors, prussik, jumars. 100m static rope shared between two parties and expect it to be trashed be the end of a week at Mingulay.

I once abseiled into Dun Mingulay to climb Big Kenneth and ended up half way down before realising that a big swell was running and the ab rope was in the sea. I wasn’t keen on jumaring back up so continued to just above the sea the started counting the waves. At an appropriate moment I abbed into shallow water and rushed (no 4 cam in hand) to a good ledge and rammed the cam into a crack!

[remus]

I once abseiled into Dun Mingulay to climb Big Kenneth and ended up half way down before realising that a big swell was running and the ab rope was in the sea. I wasn’t keen on jumaring back up so continued to just above the sea the started counting the waves. At an appropriate moment I abbed into shallow water and rushed (no 4 cam in hand) to a good ledge and rammed the cam into a crack!

Similar story here. When you first look down it's hard to gauge the size of the swell because you're so far away! We abbed in to find a much-bigger-than-it-looked swell and ended up huddled in to a little nook trying (unsuccessfully) not to get rinsed while our mate ran up the first pitch of Sula.