[James Malloch]

I’d love to be able to touch my toes. I think it will help me with some recurring running injuries but also for AcroYoga as it would really help to be able to hold my legs straight up above my hips (when lying down).

I’m really bad in this respect. Like I can get to about 45 degrees with back and legs both straight. I go through phases of stretching regularly but I’m currently at the end of a spell of not doing anything…

I remember Ollie (from lattice) saying he could get me touching my toes in a month but I never followed up. I think this would have involved a lot of PNF stretching.

Any good daily routines or tips would be appreciated. If I doing manage it on this trip then I never will!

Ideally I’d prefer something that isn’t Yoga as I never really enjoy classes that much even though I know it’s good for you!

[battery]

I know you said not yoga but have you looked at yoga with Adrienne on YouTube? There are 10 minute quick hits through to full on sessions that are tailored to different things including stretches for runners. If you know what it is that is inhibiting your ability to get down there then that would help - you may know this, I'm not sure how easy it is to work out. My ruined hips mean I can't do full yoga but I take some of the stretches that work for me from those videos and do them in isolation.

[joel182]

Check out Tom Merrick (Bodyweight Warrior) on YouTube. His follow along videos have been really effective for me:



One piece of advice is that it takes some time to learn to stretch. Really make some commitment to stick with it even though it feels like a chore, and at some point you might develop the habit and actually find it enjoyable (for me this took well over a month, but it did happen).

[User deactivated.]

2 years ago I'd never stretched in my life and couldn't come close to touching my toes! Now, at 32, I can put my palms on the floor and almost do a full forward fold. Like with most things, consistency plays a major part and you want to be doing at least a small amount of stretching almost every day. I made it a part of my evening routine.

This has been my go-to for daily stretching the hamstrings:

Although you should be aware that this bent leg position isolates the hamstrings and folding forwards stretches more than just this muscle. I train my forward folds loaded holding a 5kg weight with feet elevated (Jefferson curls). I feel loaded stretching made the biggest difference for me after introducing it but should be done less frequently.

Also agree with the Tom Merrick recommendation above

[Duma]

Just did that Tom Merrick follow along that Joel posted, suspect it's going to be too hard if you can't touch your toes yet.

[Paul B]

Just did that Tom Merrick follow along that Joel posted, suspect it's going to be too hard if you can't touch your toes yet.

Likewise I've used his other videos and I've found they're too hard for where I am with flexibility (not a good place). It's been something I've neglected for years; I used to play squash competitively and was really flexible and just relied on that which declined over time (I don't play anymore) and then I spent a portion of time with an Illizarov frame on and that really finished me off.

I've been trying to consistently used the Lattice follow-along flexibility videos (with a bit of a Covid gap) but I'm still struggling with progress towards my toes.

[PeteHukb]

My top tip would be: stop trying to touch your toes! It's kind of a weird compound movement and often you end up straining your back more than stretching your hamstrings (which are usually the problem). To lengthen hamstrings, try the following.

1) Sit on your bum with your legs straight in front of you. Now, shuffle backwards across the room keeping your legs locked straight and body as upright as possible. Often after 1 rep of this you'll be noticeably closer to touching your toes, it's like magic.

2) Do forward folds but keep your whole back straight, bend at the hips, bum sticking out, and rather than touching your toes, touch your ears and stick your elbows out - hold for 30s.

I never used to be able to touch my toes but can do so easily with combining the above a couple of times a week, plus a few other yoga bits.

[James Malloch]

Thanks for all the advice! I’ll give some of them a go tomorrow!

1) Sit on your bum with your legs straight in front of you. Now, shuffle backwards across the room keeping your legs locked straight and body as upright as possible. Often after 1 rep of this you'll be noticeably closer to touching your toes, it's like magic.

For this one, would you just be super active or use hands to assist the movement? I can’t sit upright with legs out straight. Not even close with body upright…

[slab_happy]

My top tip, in two parts:

1) Hamstring (and hip) stretches can benefit a lot from longer holds — think at least a minute, maybe 3-5 minutes if you want to go full Yin Yoga style. Find a pose that requires minimal muscle tension to hold (e.g. sitting or lying on the floor), then don’t over-strain, just go to the point where you feel a bit of a stretch happening, then hang out there and breathe and chill for a while. You might find that after a minute or so things “unlock” a bit and you can go deeper into the stretch. Don’t be afraid to fidget about, adjust the pose to see what feels best, go a bit deeper or back off as needed; there is no law that you have to stay perfectly still.

2) Sitting or reclining hamstring (and hip) stretches are pretty excellent for watching DVDs/YouTube/iPlayer/whatever. Just stick a pillow or block under your head if you’re lying on your back, so you can see the screen.  This makes long holds much, much less boring, and stops you twitching and looking at your watch every 5 seconds, and also increases motivation to do your stretches because then it becomes the time you get to watch that TV programme you meant to get around to.

I owe my front splits largely to a box set of The Wire (not a joke).

Secondary tip: experiment with having at least a micro-bend in your knees.

Even if/when you can touch your toes with your legs locked straight, unlocking them a fraction can help get the stretch happening in the muscle belly rather than straining the hamstring attachment to your sitz bones, which hurts and takes ages to heal (do not recommend).

Other secondary tip: improvise a “yoga belt”  with a regular belt, a sling, a metre or two of worn-out rope, a resistance band, whatever. When you’re doing reclining stretches, use it to hook your foot and pull it gently towards you. Even if you can reach your foot without it, the belt lets you do so while keeping your back very flat, and without straining or tensing stuff.

This again contributes to the ability to chill and breathe, which has a huge effect on allowing you to relax and your nervous system to decide that you’re not about to pull yourself apart and that therefore it doesn’t need to contract your muscles protectively to prevent injury.

I believe the science increasingly suggests that a lot of stretching is not about tissue changes but about the nervous system being conditioned to accept that a wider range of motion can be safe and okay.

Which is why building strength at the extremes of your current range of motion can also help, because it builds that experience of having stability and control in that end-range (and also is really really handy for anything like climbing where you really need to have strength and control while your joints might be in quite extreme positions) .

[PeteHukb]

Thanks for all the advice! I’ll give some of them a go tomorrow!

1) Sit on your bum with your legs straight in front of you. Now, shuffle backwards across the room keeping your legs locked straight and body as upright as possible. Often after 1 rep of this you'll be noticeably closer to touching your toes, it's like magic.

For this one, would you just be super active or use hands to assist the movement? I can’t sit upright with legs out straight. Not even close with body upright…

Try not to use your hands to assist the movement, and just stay as upright as possible. I presume you can sit on your bum with your legs straight without using your hands? Just sit as upright as possible from your default position (get your belly button closer to your toes) and then start shufflin'. It's very ungainly but it seems to do the trick.

[SA Chris]

I think it will help me with some recurring running injuries

Depending on the injuries, if done incorrectly, it could make them worse. What's the issues? (maybe one for the runners)

[James Malloch]

Thanks for all the advice! I’ll give some of them a go tomorrow!

1) Sit on your bum with your legs straight in front of you. Now, shuffle backwards across the room keeping your legs locked straight and body as upright as possible. Often after 1 rep of this you'll be noticeably closer to touching your toes, it's like magic.

For this one, would you just be super active or use hands to assist the movement? I can’t sit upright with legs out straight. Not even close with body upright…

Try not to use your hands to assist the movement, and just stay as upright as possible. I presume you can sit on your bum with your legs straight without using your hands? Just sit as upright as possible from your default position (get your belly button closer to your toes) and then start shufflin'. It's very ungainly but it seems to do the trick.

I’ll give it a go, thanks!

[James Malloch]

I think it will help me with some recurring running injuries

Depending on the injuries, if done incorrectly, it could make them worse. What's the issues? (maybe one for the runners)

I can’t remember the exact thing, but it was a build up of fluid in the knee due to bad form. Hamstrings were one thing I needed to work on though (so I should have been doing them for ages already  )

[Fiend]

Slightly off-topic but in case it's useful, I can confirm that being able to touch your toes is absolutely bloody useless for 1. Any form of relevant climbing flexibility (hip-opening, wide bridges, etc), 2. Any form of climbing performance.

OTOH it's a fairly pleasant stretch, it is directly measurable, and I agree with the common sense advice above of starting gently, doing it regularly, doing longer holds etc.

[James Malloch]

Slightly off-topic but in case it's useful, I can confirm that being able to touch your toes is absolutely bloody useless for 1. Any form of relevant climbing flexibility (hip-opening, wide bridges, etc), 2. Any form of climbing performance.

OTOH it's a fairly pleasant stretch, it is directly measurable, and I agree with the common sense advice above of starting gently, doing it regularly, doing longer holds etc.

Definitely not for climbing use for me - it’s to basically do this photo.

I’m very much like the bottom half of the photo and holding someone there is super hard for me. If I could make a nice L shape with vertical legs, so much more would become possible to do/try.


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[Fiend]

Well that's a cool aim 

[SA Chris]

I can’t remember the exact thing, but it was a build up of fluid in the knee due to bad form.

Bursitis?

[User deactivated.]

Slightly off-topic but in case it's useful, I can confirm that being able to touch your toes is absolutely bloody useless for 1. Any form of relevant climbing flexibility (hip-opening, wide bridges, etc), 2. Any form of climbing performance.

OTOH it's a fairly pleasant stretch, it is directly measurable, and I agree with the common sense advice above of starting gently, doing it regularly, doing longer holds etc.

On my current boulder project, from a sort of iron cross position on 2 distant gastons, I do a high front kick with an almost straight leg to get my foot near my hand, which I can then turn into a deep drop knee making the next move (possibly the redpoint crux) more secure. I've never seen anyone else do it this way and I don't think you'd be able to without good pike flexibility and hip flexor strength. Admittedly this is a rare move, but it's one of the best moves i've done on rock and might make the difference on getting up the thing!

[seankenny]

I owe my front splits largely to a box set of The Wire (not a joke).

I’ve just been getting into stretching recently as thanks to long covid I can’t do anything else that you could remotely classify as training. A bit of consistency has seen me go from just touching toes to putting all my fingers on the floor in front of me, with the full palm touch not that far off. So progression is pretty quick and suitably satisfying. But now I’m thinking of more ambitious aims… roughly how long/how much effort did it take to get your front splits?

[James Malloch]

Just did a first 20 min session. Did some of the bum shuffling, bending with hands to ears (really helps keep back straight) and finished with 13 mins of feet up against the back of the van whilst watching a video.

Awful photo but definitely feeling better after that one session. Bum is still slightly off the ground.

[slab_happy]

Slightly off-topic but in case it's useful, I can confirm that being able to touch your toes is absolutely bloody useless for 1. Any form of relevant climbing flexibility (hip-opening, wide bridges, etc), 2. Any form of climbing performance.

OTOH it's a fairly pleasant stretch, it is directly measurable, and I agree with the common sense advice above of starting gently, doing it regularly, doing longer holds etc.

Definitely not for climbing use for me - it’s to basically do this photo.

I’m very much like the bottom half of the photo and holding someone there is super hard for me. If I could make a nice L shape with vertical legs, so much more would become possible to do/try.


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I'd say reclining hamstring stretch using a strap could be very useful for you -- it's a great stretch anyway, easy to modify for wherever your current level of flexibility is, and relates most directly to the position you're trying to work towards.

This, basically:



You can keep the passive leg straight or bend it and put the sole of the foot flat on the floor, whatever feels most comfortable.

Also forgot to say that it's all easier if you do it when you're warmed up rather than "cold".

[slab_happy]

I owe my front splits largely to a box set of The Wire (not a joke).

I’ve just been getting into stretching recently as thanks to long covid I can’t do anything else that you could remotely classify as training. A bit of consistency has seen me go from just touching toes to putting all my fingers on the floor in front of me, with the full palm touch not that far off. So progression is pretty quick and suitably satisfying. But now I’m thinking of more ambitious aims… roughly how long/how much effort did it take to get your front splits?

Hard to remember because it was ages ago, but I'd say that most of the progress happened over a year. However, that was the year of my Epic Psychiatric Misadventures ("freak neurochemical reaction" are never words you want to hear ...) so a fair amount of that time was spent stuck in a hospital room with fuck-all to do except watch "The Wire" while doing yoga. So it's a bit hard to work out how that'd translate into time/effort in ordinary life!

Side note: worth remembering that front splits isn't just about the hamstring stretch on the front leg, it's also about opening the hip flexors on the back leg, so make sure you've got some stretches for that too. You can build a really little nice routine with things like pigeon and janu sirsasana which work those different components (and get some bonus hip rotation as well).

[seankenny]

Thanks for that s_h, and also thanks to everyone else who posted clips. Plenty to go at! Seems like this might take some time…

[cheque]

being able to touch your toes is absolutely bloody useless for 1. Any form of relevant climbing flexibility (hip-opening, wide bridges, etc), 2. Any form of climbing performance.

This is just the sort of thing that people who either can’t remember what it’s like to have really tight hamstrings and lower back or have never been that tight in those areas say. It’s directly related to how high you can lift your feet up so has a huge impact on how hard you can climb.

[Fiend]

Yeah I might have been speaking in biased absolutes (it is the current fashion though....), partly based on having always been able to get at least middle knuckles to toes from cold, and feeling exactly zero benefit for climbing / climbing flexibility. Incidentally I tried proper glute / hip stretching for the first time in months yesterday, and I whilst I could get middle knuckles to toes from cold, I was bloody rubbish at glutes / hips - something which I've definitely noticed has made me feel a bit awkward and restricted on some climbing recently.