[petejh]

Off to Sardinia next week, climbing around Cala Gonone, Cala Luna and hopefully some multipitch in Supramonte. Just doing some due diligence on the bolt failure issues - wondering if anyone has any up to date info or links to sources of info on crags that may have been re-equipped with titanium or duplex high corrosion resistant steel, routes/crags to avoid or recent failures etc. Cala Luna sounds particularly bad, anyone know if it's been re-equipped?

I've checked out the info on the excellent 'climbingsardinia' site: https://www.climbingsardinia.com/topos/forum/new-bolting/e-arrivato-il-titanio/

thanks.

[Wood FT]

Do you use Instagram, Pete?

I follow a Sardinian equipper on there who seems very knowledgeable on all things bolts. Does a large amount of re-equipping.

Maurizio Oviglia
www.pietradiluna.com

[MischaHY]

I was there in 2020 and it was a real mix. Some of the multipitches on Punta Cusidore and the surrounding rocks were in perfect shape and then others were in dire need of rebolting or had only been partially rebolted. We bailed on an otherwise excellent route called 'Legitimo Bastardo' a couple of pitches after the crux after reaching a totally rotten belay and rotten bolts above (never seen bolts so bad).

Another weird one was 'Cuore in Gola' in Gorropu which was totally brilliant but randomly runs out of bolts on the final pitch and left me questing around 10m above the last bolt for about 30 mins before deciding to bail. Another mate confirmed this is still the case as of March this year.

Many bolts in Millenium looked suspect in my opinion. This may have changed since due to rebolting efforts from locals.

[petejh]

Thanks both. I checked out Maurizio's site where he has a list of routes that he's re-equipped since 2020. Must be a massive job and far too big for a just few people to take on. Concerning to me (but understandable from a cost pov) that the re-equipping appears to be taking place using mostly 316-grade stainless (titanium for belays, S/S for protection bolts), as according to the materials scientists informing the UIAA this will just be delaying inevitable bolt failures in those environments for another x-years where x= 'more than 1 but less than 15'.

Also found this discussion with some good input on the science behind stress corrosion cracking: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110604211/protect-ya-neck-aka-bad-bolts-in-sardinia

Seems it's all about the relative concentration of saturated chlorides and the repeated cycles of those chlorides wetting/drying/and converting to more corrosive elements over time.

From the knowledge put out here and elsewhere it appears that sport-climbing in countries with the required combination of temperature/humidity (e.g. med, especially but not exclusively exposed to salt water) is going to go through a long and expensive era of replacing stainless steel in-situ equipment with longer-lasting metals. Makes me wonder, if titanium becomes prohibitively expensive, whether there's an opportunity for a glue-in climbing bolt manufactured from some kind of hard tough re-cycled plastic, or S/S with a tough plastic or rubber coating, with the required strength and corrosion resistance.

[jwi]

I like this idea with plastic bolts!

There are titanium deposits all over the place, and cheap electricity in many places, so I am not overly worried in the medium term.

It is not only in the Med and Thailand where SCC is a problem, we got really pissed off when we saw that they didn't use Titanium in Flatanger, as Norway is the one country in the world where they can afford Titanium from the get go. The stainless bolts looked like you'd expect. (I also went there around 2005 or so, and the non-stainless bolts that the original developers had put in the mid 1990s where in a shocking state. I noticed the same in other crags in Norway close to the sea).

[petejh]

Actually looked into this a bit today but came away with the idea that rather than hard plastic (which doesn't perform well under cyclic loading) a better solution would be a looped eye of Dyneema fixed somehow to some kind of high-strength nylon insert, itself glued in place into, say, a 10 or 12mm drilled hole. Rather than steel bolts on a route, there would be fixed little Dyneema 'loops' sticking out of the rock. The nylon insert could perhaps be made replaceable by a screw in/out mechanism into a second, fixed, nylon sleeve allowing for sustainable replacement of 'bolt' placements should it need to be replaced. This would be a super strong (10mm dyneema = 10,000kg!), passive, super lightweight (easy for equippers), chemical UV and corrosion-resistant, climbing anchor system that used no metal.  Would love to see something like this developed.

[remus]

I like the train of thought Pete but doesn't dyneema lose quite a bit of strength with UV exposure? I guess you could design for easy replacement but any replacement over short time spans (say <10 years) is surely a pain in the ass.

[teestub]

As well as the UV issue (which may be covered by the initial high strength? A quick Google suggests 40% strength after 10 years) wouldn’t the mechanical abrasion of all those quickdraws mainly used on bolts, and therefore with a nice serrated notch, cause problems pretty fast?

[petejh]

Wouldn't have thought loss of strength due to UV would be of any significance on a piece of 10mm dyneema rope (not thinking of climbing slings).  It has a massively over-engineered breaking strength, stuff's used on ships for heavy duty work. But yes it would lose strength from its as-new rating. The abrasion against rock would be more of a concern but again not thinking about climbing slings here.. tightly-woven dyneema rope is pretty indestructible unless chopped with a blade.

I expect it's already been done, but it would be easy enough to put Dyneema on a test-bed exposed to the harshest possible UV to gauge loss of strength over long time periods.

[galpinos]

FYI, I'm assuming people are aware of the update to UIAA 123:

https://theuiaa.org/documents/safety/09122020_UIAA_ClimbingAnchors_Update_123.pdf

For those interested in an overview of the issues related to atmospherically induced stress corrosion cracking, it is worth a read.

[SA Chris]

Sounds like a pain is the AISCC.

I remember issues flagged up with it in the Western Cape and Natal in the 80s during the initial bolting sprees. Seem to remember titanium glue ins were seen as the best economic option.

[Johnny Brown]

For anyone wanting to dive deep into the problem: https://cragchemistry.com/blog/

FWIW I'm in awe of this blog.

Dyneema idea is certainly feasible but I'm not convinced it would have much potential for long-term fit and forget installations. Ti probably remains the answer. If any monied early-retirees were looking to develop such an idea, they'd be welcome to free time on our 100kN test machine though.

[Alex-the-Alex]

Interesting reading. Especially the chemistry. How does this update reflect on seaside crags in N Wales, Gower, Swanage, Aberdeen etc? Have they mostly been equipped with 316? Do they need re-equipping or are UK temperatures less likley to cause problems? I got the impression that until recently folks felt titanium was (expensive) overkill in the UK?

[Muenchener]

Wouldn't have thought loss of strength due to UV would be of any significance on a piece of 10mm dyneema rope (not thinking of climbing slings).  It has a massively over-engineered breaking strength, stuff's used on ships for heavy duty work. But yes it would lose strength from its as-new rating. The abrasion against rock would be more of a concern but again not thinking about climbing slings here.. tightly-woven dyneema rope is pretty indestructible unless chopped with a blade.

I expect it's already been done, but it would be easy enough to put Dyneema on a test-bed exposed to the harshest possible UV to gauge loss of strength over long time periods.

If we've already decided that drilling holes is ok, and now we think dyneema rope is ok, then why not forget the frictiony bit in the hole and just go for abalakovs?

[jwi]

Wouldn't have thought loss of strength due to UV would be of any significance on a piece of 10mm dyneema rope (not thinking of climbing slings).  It has a massively over-engineered breaking strength, stuff's used on ships for heavy duty work. But yes it would lose strength from its as-new rating. The abrasion against rock would be more of a concern but again not thinking about climbing slings here.. tightly-woven dyneema rope is pretty indestructible unless chopped with a blade.

I expect it's already been done, but it would be easy enough to put Dyneema on a test-bed exposed to the harshest possible UV to gauge loss of strength over long time periods.

If we've already decided that drilling holes is ok, and now we think dyneema rope is ok, then why not forget the frictiony bit in the hole and just go for abalakovs?

They did that in Wendenstöcke. Drilled holes true the runnels. I am not impressed, the wind move the slings quite a bit I suspect, because they get cut really fast on the edge of the drilled hole. Found a sling that had fallen off one of the routes by itself on the approach.

[Wil]

How does this update reflect on seaside crags in N Wales, Gower, Swanage, Aberdeen etc?

The BMC have some bolts installed on Pen Trwyn for this reason. Some are above the Marine Drive and some in a boulder below LPT. The thinking is that the UK is probably too cold for SCC to be a major issue, and 316 is the recommended material.

Further info:

Bolts - A Guide for Installers

Notes on Pen Trwyn test locations.

[petejh]

There's a risk matrix somewhere from one of the UIAA links, showing the various factors that need to come together for SCC to be a high risk. I have it saved somewhere. I recall most of the UK is low risk for SCC but the south coast possibly higher. 
If SCC was a high risk in N.Wales I think we'd have seen bolt failures by now, as Dave Lyon and others were placing 316 and/or 304 SS expansion bolts on sea cliffs on the Ormes in the early 90s (Ocean of Emotion 1991 and plenty other routes). I've spent a long time with a heavy lump hammer on a number of early 90s-era S/S expansion bolts exposed to the sea (long story) and can confirm there was no significant loss of strength - they took absolutely ages to smash off and I should taken the grinder instead.

If we've already decided that drilling holes is ok, and now we think dyneema rope is ok, then why not forget the frictiony bit in the hole and just go for abalakovs?

I thought this too, but it would be a pain to drill a solid thread every time as the rock would need to be just right. Result would likely leave cliffs full of redundant botched holes. Just like we've left the cliffs full of redundant botched bolts.

[Potash]

I remember that there were a few routes at Malham protected by drilled threads. I think Bolt Revolt was one.

I've also seen a few drilled aretes as well.

They undoubtedly will still be safe long after the bolts that have now replaced them have failed.

We could solve all these problems by just manufacturing gear placements, a drill and grinder should produce bomber nut placements.

[SA Chris]

The old Edwards' approach

[Potash]

Was Edwards approach the three adjacent drill holes to form a cam slot?

On a more serious note the "constructive" pegging approach taken in parts of the USA is interesting.

There were a few routes in Arches National Park which, just prior to the hammer ban, there were a sequence of pegged assents where by removing the pegs only by hammering upwards good wire slots are created.

These all now go hammer free.

[SA Chris]

Was Edwards approach the three adjacent drill holes to form a cam slot?

That and holes with sleeves you would put a reversed nut into so it cams like a tricam.

[Johnny Brown]

Just leave the holes empty and carry a rack of Coeur Pulse.

[SA Chris]

This is the way. Sorry nesting ladybirds.

[petejh]

Just leave the holes empty and carry a rack of Coeur Pulse.

https://youtu.be/vuBdYXK44oY?t=18

(I assume his dynamic rope is also clipped into a backup fixed bolt out of sight below the removable bolt in case it rips, if not he's an idiot!)

[Potash]

Just leave the holes empty and carry a rack of Coeur Pulse.

Have you used these and are they as susceptible to variations in hole shape as the video suggests?

Can you place them one handed? (whilst pumped?)

[petejh]

Couers aren't designed to be re-used after falling on, permanent deformation @  >6kN. I have a few of them which I use for bolting new routes, v.useful for positioning and not leaving sacrificial bolts. They work well enough without a triple or quad-headed drill bit. You could easily enough place them one-handed on lead if you wanted to.

[petejh]

Just a post-trip update for anyone planning a trip. We visited the following areas:

Millennium Cave. Amazing place and the routes were all excellent. I'd definitely return for another visit here. A mix of some corroded bolts / some good new bolts. Felt a bit gripped lowering off on one route due to bad bolts. Shade in the cave most of the day.
Cala Luna. Really terrible bolts! I felt like I was soloing, lowering off was scary. Only climbed 2 routes and bailed from a third because of the bolting but also because we had to cut short and run away from a thunderstorm as we'd rented our own little boat. Lovely place, but I probably wouldn't return. It's more of a novelty crag for beach / climbing and the climbing isn't worth it due to the dangerous condition of the bolts. Renting a little powerboat for 120 euro  - no powerboat licence required - allows for checking out the amazing cliffs and caves along the coastline from Cala Luna, there looked like some superb DWS potential.
Cala Fuili. The routes on the crags nearest the beach have been re-equipped with titanium glue-ins. Didn't venture further up the gully to the more inland crags.
Dorgali. Good easy-access crag for morning shade and its on the way back for an airport day. Bolts seemed fine on the routes we climbed. Good mix of 5s, 6s and 7s. I really liked this place even though it's not somewhere you'd travel for on its own.
Gorrupu Canyon. Didn't climb but just an amazing place for a visit and to gawp at Hotel Supramonte and the other routes. Watched a team on 'Cuore in Gola (7c+, 250m). Would be v.keen to return to try one of the big routes if anyone's keen! Walked in downhill (2hrs) and got the jeep out for 15 euro.

Read on Keith Sharples insta that Bidiriscottai has been re-equipped with titaniums. Looks like a great crag and I'd like to visit on a return trip.
Having knowledge of the previous bolt failures in Sardinia - and having first-hand experience of snapping three bolts with just body-weight while re-equipping on N.Wales Limestone - definitely had me feeling more gripped than I normally would while climbing 6s and low 7s. A case of ignorance being bliss. Cala Luna isn't worth visiting for the climbing imo, due to the condition of the bolts. Everywhere else we visited seemed either manageable - as in some bad bolts but mostly OK - or no problem. Millennium Cave is an incredible crag almost worth visiting by itself (perhaps needs a few more routes to be truly world class). 

[Muenchener]

Gorrupu Canyon. Didn't climb but just an amazing place for a visit and to gawp at Hotel Supramonte and the other routes.

I walked through the canyon with kids on a family holiday a few years back and remember being absolutely gobsmacked by the Hotel Supramonte wall