[JamieG]

Maybe it would be better if they weren't called 'grades' and called something like 'guides' or 'estimates' or some other word that better represents their inherent fuzziness. Grades gives the impression of something more quantifiable.

[crimpinainteasy]

Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.

Equally conversely to Albarracin you've got places like Font where many of the 5-6's have become polished as shit over time due to usage of POF but people still refuse to upgrade them because of the history involved.

Also on the topic of grading REM by Giuliano has been re-upgraded to 8C+ by the last two repeat ascentionists after Paul downgraded to 8B+. Seems a pretty wild disparity in grade opinion between Paul and everyone else.

[Will Hunt]

To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.

[remus]

Hard to imagine Bosi not making mincemeat of eg Jade. It would be fun to let him loose on the Peabody boulder as well. He might have done these already tbf

This trip is his first time climbing outdoors in the US apparently.

[yetix]

I think Jade is submerged in snow at this time of year as well (coops to confirm!) and apparently chaos is getting a soft reopening though so maybe he can try and flash it one day!

[crimpinainteasy]

To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.

Maybe this just makes me a bad grader then, but I cba trying to grade problems on how hard I think a move is going to feel for someone else, I just grade on how hard something feels for me. I find even among problems that on are on paper in the same style and in a similar grade range there is still a significant amount of variance in how much effort me and my friends spend on each individual problem.

[Dingdong]

Maybe it would be better if they weren't called 'grades' and called something like 'guides' or 'estimates' or some other word that better represents their inherent fuzziness. Grades gives the impression of something more quantifiable.

This is genuinely not a bad idea you know, maybe the language we use around grades is what needs to change instead of the grades themselves

[monkoffunk]

To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.

Maybe this just makes me a bad grader then, but I cba trying to grade problems on how hard I think a move is going to feel for someone else, I just grade on how hard something feels for me. I find even among problems that on are on paper in the same style and in a similar grade range there is still a significant amount of variance in how much effort me and my friends spend on each individual problem.

Yes, isn’t this the point of consensus? Everybody gives an honest opinion, you get a vague idea overall. Then most observers know what sort of experience they will have on it.

Looking at what factors seem to cause individual variation in grade feel might just help you narrow down expectations a little further for when you try it. Like the whole Spectre can you keep the foot on or not thing.

Or you just go and try it anyway and find out for yourself.

[joe-m]

Mammut have a hitlist

Sleepwalker - $10k sit $15k

Alphane - $15k

Burden of dreams - used to be $20k but you only get $15k now

West side story - $25k

Can someone please put out a $100k contract on Shadowplay

Surprised Bosi/Aidan havent put some time into it

even though I assume this was tounge in cheek I believe they've both had a play on it.

[Dingdong]

Mammut have a hitlist

Sleepwalker - $10k sit $15k

Alphane - $15k

Burden of dreams - used to be $20k but you only get $15k now

West side story - $25k

Can someone please put out a $100k contract on Shadowplay

Surprised Bosi/Aidan havent put some time into it

even though I assume this was tounge in cheek I believe they've both had a play on it.

I was being sort of serious, would be good to see them work it properly and see if it can be “repeated”

[Will Hunt]

Andy's Problem Sit

Sorry to drag this back a page or two but, Nick, do you mean the sit to Desert Island Arete climbed on it's right? Can't be worth more than 7A surely?

[Bradders]

No, the Caley one.

[Will Hunt]

No, the Caley one.

Ah right, thank you. I was questioning my own sanity for a moment.

[User deactivated.]

Finger lock rest on Return of the Sleepwalker:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2cvZQQxOR6/

Mellow crew now in hiding.

[Moo]

It's ode the the modern man all over again.

[Fiend]

Will Bantzi

[remus]

Sounds like RotSW is close, stuck the slot a few times last session and missed getting the intermediate properly a few times.

[andy popp]

RotSW send video:

[Bradders]

Is it just me or could it go from a much lower start?

[teestub]

Looks like an obvious sit start position on a good hold, we aren’t at Griff’s 😄

[Bradders]

More's the pity

[Fiend]

Is it just me or could it go from a much lower start?

Pad stack, back around, etc etc.

Top work from the ever-charming Bosi.

[Kingy]

On the 8a.nu comments of their news piece, there is the following:

I believe the whole ground eroded/washed away from the rain last season so the ground is now much lower. Compare the DW video at 12:02 with WB at 6:43 and seems like the angle of their arms is pretty similar upon pulling on.

[36chambers]

Is it just me or could it go from a much lower start?

does anyone know if anyone got round to climbing the original version of the sitter yet? Supposedly adds 8A+ into Sleepwalker, whereas Return adds 8B.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtoE2SNlv4r/

Bosi should have had a bash after ROTSW, could have been a quick 8C+/9A FA.

[remus]

Is it just me or could it go from a much lower start?

does anyone know if anyone got round to climbing the original version of the sitter yet? Supposedly adds 8A+ into Sleepwalker, whereas Return adds 8B.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtoE2SNlv4r/

Bosi should have had a bash after ROTSW, could have been a quick 8C+/9A FA.

I assume people lost interest after the big block under ROTSW was moved, as I guess the left start is a bit contrived as you're starting pretty close to/in Squoze.