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Bosiwad (Read 156366 times)

erm, sam

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#450 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 08:33:18 am
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Which are these 7Cs that are easier than West Side, please?
My thoughts exactly.

Dingdong

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#451 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 08:46:02 am
Ova Arm, Les Grand Doigts, zaff skocylas, Mossatrocity, cap gun, truffle, spring voyage, submergence, bens wall, domes sit, brass monkeys, echo chamber, diagon alley etc etc these are all easier than west side story  :lol: and it’s no secret that most people consider west side 7C especially after the pebble on the face broke making the move to the break even harder if you’re short.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 08:51:20 am by Dingdong »

Bradders

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#452 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:08:25 am
Which are these 7Cs that are easier than West Side, please?

Brass Monkeys, Tetris, Hannibal, Pigs Make Nests (and the sit), Domes Sit and maybe Master Kush. For me anyway.

teestub

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#453 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:22:16 am
If the problems being pointed out as easier arenít in a similar style to the supposed sandbag, it just makes one look technically deficient, rather than indicating an upgrade is required  ;D


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#454 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:28:11 am
Nah itís just a sandbag for sure

spidermonkey09

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#455 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:31:46 am
Ova Arm, Les Grand Doigts, zaff skocylas, Mossatrocity, cap gun, truffle, spring voyage, submergence, bens wall, domes sit, brass monkeys, echo chamber, diagon alley etc etc these are all easier than west side story  :lol: and itís no secret that most people consider west side 7C especially after the pebble on the face broke making the move to the break even harder if youíre short.

I thought west side was ok at 7B+ and I'm 5'7''. Maybe you are technically deficient at vert climbing, just like I'm technically deficient at squeezing.

Also whatr stubs said, build a list of vert 7Cs you think are easier...



Dingdong

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#456 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:40:25 am
I wouldnít say Iím technically deficient at vert, I actually climb most of west side quite easily but I still think itís harder than 7B+ My point was more that things feel different to different people who are of different sizes etc going back to wills downgrade of sleepwalker

Will Hunt

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#457 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:41:33 am
I was fortunate enough to come to it with decent skin, decent rubber, and good connies and it felt low-end 7B+ to me. I'm sure I'd find the steep squeezes you've listed harder. I am crap at steep squeezing, that doesn't mean I declare all the steep squeezes I can't do a grade harder.

I wouldnít say Iím technically deficient at vert

Didn't you also leave a comment on The Storm on UKC saying "7C all day"? That was downgraded years ago and rightly so.

Dingdong

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#458 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:48:53 am
Didn’t the storm used to be 8A originally? Seems like quite the mental downgrade. Again I found the storm easy, doesn’t mean I can’t give my opinion on the grade  :lol:

Also Will don’t forget you’re about a foot taller than me… oh and thanks for the pebble beta on the storm, actually helped loads!

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#459 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:50:42 am
Arguing over 1 grade is pointless, even within a given style. Reducing the scale to 'low 7', 'high 7', 'low 8', etc. still wouldn't completely eliminate debate. How many more debates do we need to see for this to be obvious to everyone?

Will Hunt

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#460 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:55:08 am
Also Will donít forget youíre about a foot taller than me

If you've done The Storm at 4 foot 10 inches then fair play to you.

Bradders

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#461 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 09:56:29 am
If the problems being pointed out as easier arenít in a similar style to the supposed sandbag, it just makes one look technically deficient, rather than indicating an upgrade is required  ;D

A fair comment, I was thinking Peak centric but in comparable style in Yorkshire I think it's about the same as Agrippa, The Titfield Thunderbolt Sit, The Flakes Sit, Andy's Problem Sit, Archimedes and Finches Fuel Sit.

Arguing over 1 grade is pointless, even within a given style. Reducing the scale to 'low 7', 'high 7', 'low 8', etc. still wouldn't completely eliminate debate. How many more debates do we need to see for this to be obvious to everyone?

But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.

teestub

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#462 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 10:00:20 am
Arguing over 1 grade is pointless,

Yes letís go back to discussing people arguing about the grade of a problem most of us have never seen, let alone will climb, instead 😄

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#463 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 10:03:47 am
But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.

But is Ben's high 7 or low 8? And so it continues...

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#464 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 10:04:34 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things

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#465 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 10:06:31 am
this discussion is almost funnier than the comment thread below Will Bosi's instagram post

Anway, just switch to Japanese kyu-dan grading, 3dan = 7C+ to 8A, 4 dan = 8A+ to 8B, 5 dan = 8B+ to 8C, 6 dan 8C+ to 9A. Sleepwalker just got downgraded from 6 dan to 5 dan.

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#466 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 10:09:04 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things

I donít think thereís anything wrong with that, itís good for people to give their honest opinions on how something felt, I have more respect for people doing that than not. I climb with someone whoís over 6í regularly and Iím totally aware of how stuff feels way easier for them and itís personal.

I do think some stuff can be historically sandbagged and people can maybe feel some kind of pride to it being graded harder than it actually is. At least thatís kind of my thoughts on west side. I was just in Albarracin and I had a super strong polish fellow ask me ďis everything on grit really sandbagged like people say it is?Ē  :lol:

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#467 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:11:55 am
Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.

SA Chris

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#468 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:18:06 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things

For 'tis writ in the Gospels of St Jerry thus "For where two or three gather in my name, a grade debate shall be among them"

dave k

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#469 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:19:04 am
Quote from: drewruana
Ö. Same thing as normal, different body types will have a different experience. I have a -1 reach which means I had to do a few extra hard adjustments to reach the slot crimp, and I couldnít pinch the top hold since my hands didnít span. It felt 16 for me compared to other climbs but also it doesnít mean itís 16 for everyone, as seen by wills post. Doesnít mean any of us are right or wrong the grade just gives a relative experience on it

Drew's view on the grade is very influential in the US and despite not having climbed V17 yet, he has a huge experience of V14+ (90 ish) including more V15 and 16s than Will.

It will be interesting to see if Will gets to sample other US hard problems to see how quickly he does other V14 and 15s.

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#470 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:20:09 am
Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.

Thatís what I replied to him ďnot necessarily sandbagged everywhere, spends on the crag, the problem, the FAist etcĒ

Bradders

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#471 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:24:40 am
The more I do the less things make sense.

Full agree

But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.

But is Ben's high 7 or low 8? And so it continues...

You need to stop cutting down trees at Hawkcliffe and go find out mate ;)

spidermonkey09

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#472 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:26:11 am

It will be interesting to see if Will gets to sample other US hard problems to see how quickly he does other V14 and 15s.

Hard to imagine Bosi not making mincemeat of eg Jade. It would be fun to let him loose on the Peabody boulder as well. He might have done these already tbf

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#473 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:29:17 am
The more I do the less things make sense.

This is the most accurate statement about grades! They have a purpose and mostly serve it, but also frequently make absolutely no sense. Best not to worry about it.

yetix

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#474 Re: Bosiwad
January 22, 2024, 11:33:59 am
I think part of the issue is that people often lean into they need to make absolute sense so they can have taken grade x or y rather than also recognising grades are also there to inform a person of an rough experience they will have if they were to try that compared to something of a similar style (although what is a similar style I suppose can become quite nuanced depending on who you ask).

 

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