[remus]

isn't West Side Story traditionally E4 at 7B+?

Pah, luxury! Layby Arete (7B+) is E2 6c.

I wonder how many E2 climbers have onsighted that? 

[andy moles]

Northumberland does have a strong hand in that kind of thing.

Australia Crack (E3 6b) gets far fewer ascents (probably because it's harder) than Prime Time (7B+). And it's not even that easy to protect.

[SA Chris]

Angus makes it look easier than that.

He's a bit of a monster though.

[jwi]

The young Swizz climber Dylan Chuat repeated Beyond 9a+ at Pic Sant Loup, in his first run of the day, without having any warm-up except some hangs on a portable hangboard. Beyond has a hard low crux as well.

https://www.grimper.com/news-interview-9a-echauffement-methode-dylan-chuat

Interesting tactics.

[cheque]

isn't West Side Story traditionally E4 at 7B+?

Pah, luxury! Layby Arete (7B+) is E2 6c.

Walk On By 7C+/ E3  unlike WSS the route and bouldering grade have never been used in the same guide though

[Johnny Brown]

Having done all three, the only one which feels worthy of an E-grade is West Side, for which E4 would seem (fair without a pad). The other two are pretty standard boulders. Be interesting to know if Gawthorpe topped out though, no one does now.

[abarro81]

West Side, for which E4 would seem fair

Because WSS is, in the overall way an E grade should work, 1 grade easier than than Bat out of Hell and comparable to the Knock (just to pick a couple of examples in the same valley) 

[yetix]

Not a repeat but on Ryus Instagram story Sean Bailey makes burden from a move in look so casual.

Is a burden thread needed at this point?

https://www.instagram.com/stories/ryu____1/3358388739302393858?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=MXZkanBka3BwbWc1ZQ==

[Nemo]

The idea that WSS as an E4 makes any kind of sense whatsoever is ridiculous.

The problem with giving highballs E grades is that lots of people for way too long have conflated doing highballs after lots of work with onsighting trad routes.  How many people have actually onsighted WSS?
If you compare doing it after work to headpointing trad routes, which is the only thing that actually makes sense - then WSS would be at least E6.
And Layby would be E5, Careless would be E8 etc.
ie: headpointing Careless is probably a bigger deal than headpointing E7/8's like EOTA or Gaia, probably not as big a deal as headpointing E8/9s like Meshuga.
flashing Careless is pretty much world class - bigger deal than flashing EOTA or Gaia, but probably not as big a deal as flashing Meshuga.

That's the only way it's actually consistent.  The downside (at least to people trying to make a living out of hard headpointing) is that means that lots of "E4 climbers" suddenly find they can and have climbed E7's - which makes hard E grades suddenly look a lot less remote.

Easiest way to deal with all that is just not to give highballs E grades.  And certainly not to give them completely pointless, inconsistent and confusing E grades.

[andy moles]

Easiest way to deal with all that is just not to give highballs E grades.

What about routes like Purgatory, which is definitely not a highball, but where the difficulties and risk factor are roughly equivalent to a highball? 

[Nemo]

Then, as should always be the case, you give it an E grade, consistent with how hard it would be to do other trad routes in an equivalent style.  ie: As long as you compare how hard it would be to flash relative to flashing other routes.  Or compare how hard it would be to headpoint relative to headpointing other routes.  etc.  Then there's rarely much problem. 

[jakaitch]

Shauna has repeated The Boss https://www.instagram.com/p/C6b-lFlKj8r/?igsh=cDJwcnI2aW51dHlx

[Fiend]

Get that to the Shaunawad thread ASAP! Top stuff 

[gme]

Even more impressively Molly did Milk it at the school.

[Duma]

Not more impressive IMO.

Both amazing achievements, but to me Shauna's return to the top level on rock as a mother is more notable than anything anyone does on a board.

[fatneck]

Totally agree! I wonder whether Badger Cave is calling?

Is this the hardest grit problem by a British woman?

[gme]

Not more impressive IMO.

Both amazing achievements, but to me Shauna's return to the top level on rock as a mother is more notable than anything anyone does on a board.

It was very much tongue in cheek.

Milk it is more impressive than anything on grit though.

[36chambers]

Is this the hardest grit problem by a British woman?

at 8B+ you could argue it's the hardest grit problem done by anyone

Having a quick scan through the strong British females list, I don't think anyone has done 8A+ or 8B on grit yet. Does anyone know otherwise?

[Johnny Brown]

Shauna's ascent is amazing. Gav is obviously trolling.

Reluctant as I am to continue this sorry 'debate'.

Then, as should always be the case, you give it an E grade, consistent with how hard it would be to do other trad routes in an equivalent style.

That's not what anyone has ever done though, because it's not useful info. Generally people want to know two things - how hard is the boulder problem, and how hard is the scary bit. E4 7a for West Side gives you this. Upgrading it because 7a is dead hard is pointless, we already have that information. If you do the 7a bit, you then have to do an E4 bit to get the tick - it's 6a move at 4m, which is why it's the same grade as The Knock, which is a slightly easier move slightly higher, although in that case it's only 6a to get there. The same logic applies to the other examples, and is the reason why Verandah buttress is still HVD despite a greater tech/trad discrepancy than West side.

(At Slipstones they did get a bit carried away or confused admittedly, and as you go right along the crag the trad grades become superfluous. But it's an old guide now, and an isolated example.

Honestly beggars belief why people philosophise about how they think grades should work, and then go back to complain about how they are wrong, rather than just looking at the given grade and applying some common sense to why it might have been given.