[Fultonius]

Chimera and Boostic are polls apart!  The Chimera feels like a floppy sock, with minimal edge support. It is great for toe- hooking. I love it on sandstone.

Old magos were insane on edges, but not precise - kind of a blunt force weapon? Sorry, they were precise (your could get on teeny edges) but they were a bit insensitive. Not tried the new ones.

Boostic is a pretty good allrounder with decent precisions/power/sensitivity. Since you're not familair with the gen1 boostic I'll not lament the loss....

[SA Chris]

Chimera and Boostic are polls apart! 

Lovely eggcorn..

[cheque]

Old magos were insane on edges, but not precise - kind of a blunt force weapon? Sorry, they were precise (your could get on teeny edges) but they were a bit insensitive.

Old Magos are the only shoes I’ve ever owned that I had the “toes too far from the rock” sensation that Liam describes with. Absurdly stiff and thick-feeling. I was falling off moves that I had completely wired in them!

[mrjonathanr]

Whereas I love my old Magos, a weapon on little limestone edges.
Liam- downward toe angle- that is what the Magos do, exactly. Each iteration is unfortunately softer than the last. You can pick up last season’s blue and yellows for about £90, bit of a bargain. I bought some. Bananafingers are pretty good about accepting returns if unused btw.
Another brand good with toe angle is Evolv, they have a bump to support your toes in a downward curled position. Love the Oracles, but they are soft. Nice grit shoe though.
Hope that helps.

[User deactivated.]

I bought some Instinct VS's and after testing them on my board, I feel like I have twice as much power in these shoes as I do in my Genius/Theory/Phantoms. This was surprising given the Instincts are a pretty old design now and they don't feel like they fit my foot quite as well (perhaps unfair given they're not yet broken in and I'm 3 sizes down from my street shoe). I now see that they're popular and have remained unchanged for good reason!

[remus]

Welcome to the fold brother.

[Thedevonshirepiemuncher]

Have they got rid of the sensation of the rubber projecting further forward than your toes then?

I went to a sportiva demo the other night and the only shoe I tried that didn't have that feeling was the theory and the new mantra which is ridiculously soft and just wouldn't stand on an edge, I didn't try them on a board

[Bonjoy]

Whatever shape my toes once were, after >30 years of climbing they are now shaped like the inside of a climbing shoe, which is handy.
I used to exclusively wear 5.10s (Velcros and Pinks), I now pretty much only wear Dragos. I do occasionally use a saved pair of Velcros for things requiring heel spurs. The Dragos aren't perfect - the heel tends to peel, they wear out quick, and they're too soft for hard edging or steep tensiony footwork, but they're great for the climbing I do the most of i.e. grit bouldering and indoors. I think a good all round shoe is oxymoronic, you pick the shoe/s that fit/s the climbing you do. The best an all round shoe can be is adequate.

[Wellsy]

I personally mega rate the Dragos. I got the Boostics for hard edges and I'm slightly less enamoured with them as they feel kinda chunky? But they're probably fine and I'm not used to em

[MischaHY]

the new mantra which is ridiculously soft and just wouldn't stand on an edge, I didn't try them on a board

Bizaare. I've got the Mantras and find them amazing on small footholds. Possibly you had them too big or too small?

[JJP]

Sounds like you are having to squeeze your feet in if using the paper to put them on.

like mischa think i down size a bit more than you in la sportiva`s.  i wear 7.5 in solutions and schwama (cant remember if my otaki s are 7.5 or and im a 10.5 street size. 

as someone else was mentioning i do find the stiffer la sportiva s take a while to break in.  reckon for the solution im wearing them a good couple months before the toe feels like it gets soft and has good feel and sensitiveity on wood, plastic or rock.

[Bradders]

I bought some Instinct VS's and after testing them on my board, I feel like I have twice as much power in these shoes as I do in my Genius/Theory/Phantoms. This was surprising given the Instincts are a pretty old design now and they don't feel like they fit my foot quite as well (perhaps unfair given they're not yet broken in and I'm 3 sizes down from my street shoe). I now see that they're popular and have remained unchanged for good reason!

I love my Instincts. Have both VSs and VSRs which are great for different things, although the best pair are actually some VSs I had resoled with Grip rubber instead of Edge and they're amazing.

Spent all last year trying to climb on my board wearing a pair of Solution Comps and couldn't use my small footholds at all, to the point that I took them all off the board! Switched back to the resoled VSs and they feel far more usable.

[SA Chris]

i wear 7.5 in solutions and schwama (cant remember if my otaki s are 7.5 or and im a 10.5 street size. 

Wow. Foot binding is illegal in China now.

[JJP]

Ye dont know what I did there meant to read 7.5 or 8 for the otaki`s.  La sportiva sizing is funny though, that drop doesnt feel esp uncomfortable and can wear those for long sessions without problem.  The toe box bit seems quite roomy and suspect my toes just bunch up a bit. Also have solutions in an 8 for longer stuff a can wear them a full session without needing to take em off.   

[Duma]

I wear 6.5 futuras and am 9.5 street, just sportiva sizing innit

[Fultonius]

the new mantra which is ridiculously soft and just wouldn't stand on an edge, I didn't try them on a board

Bizaare. I've got the Mantras and find them amazing on small footholds. Possibly you had them too big or too small?

Here's a random guess: the man from devon is 75kg+ and Mischa is <70kg. 

I think discussing shoes stiffness is utterly pointless if you don't know someone's weight and foot size. I've got mates who consider the Scarpa Vapour V "stiff" whereas I find them floppy...  He's 58kg and I'm 78ish.

The one shoes I've ever found genuinely stuff are the old boostics, gen 1 Magos and TC Pros.

[MischaHY]

the new mantra which is ridiculously soft and just wouldn't stand on an edge, I didn't try them on a board

Bizaare. I've got the Mantras and find them amazing on small footholds. Possibly you had them too big or too small?

Here's a random guess: the man from devon is 75kg+ and Mischa is <70kg. 

I think discussing shoes stiffness is utterly pointless if you don't know someone's weight and foot size. I've got mates who consider the Scarpa Vapour V "stiff" whereas I find them floppy...  He's 58kg and I'm 78ish.

The one shoes I've ever found genuinely stuff are the old boostics, gen 1 Magos and TC Pros.

Jesus, I wonder where the other 13kg+ wandered off too! This morning I was 83.5kg.

I have however made the realisation over the last 2-3 years that sizing shoes too small can do as much harm to edging ability as sizing them too big. The shoe needs to be able to conform over the available surface area and this isn't possible in a shoe that is too small.

Over the last 6 months I've swapped all my shoes out for 0.5 sizes bigger and noted a marked improvement in edging ability. This is due to the more relaxed toes allowing the midsole/toebox to flex more and conform to the surface. It also allows you to drop your ankle more whilst still maintaining good pressure through the front edge which of course leads to being able to drive more power through the foothold.

I was amazed how much of a performance difference it made and now realise I've been sizing my shoes too small for years and it has negatively affected my performance esp. on small footholds on slightly overhanging terrain and on delicate slabs.

[Fultonius]

Wildly off with that one!

I've gone up a half size in Instinct lace and keep expecting to find them sloppy but I'm yet to slip off anything!

[Thedevonshirepiemuncher]

the new mantra which is ridiculously soft and just wouldn't stand on an edge, I didn't try them on a board

Bizaare. I've got the Mantras and find them amazing on small footholds. Possibly you had them too big or too small?

Here's a random guess: the man from devon is 75kg+ and Mischa is <70kg. 

I think discussing shoes stiffness is utterly pointless if you don't know someone's weight and foot size. I've got mates who consider the Scarpa Vapour V "stiff" whereas I find them floppy...  He's 58kg and I'm 78ish.

The one shoes I've ever found genuinely stuff are the old boostics, gen 1 Magos and TC Pros.

I am 91.5 kg I think, if that really matters
I'm not sure as I normally do ok in soft shoes , I routinely wear the futura indoors and the drago and furia more outside

The mantra might have been half a size too big I guess at a 42 as they are so stretchy? The heel was great I thought

Still, none of them will compete with a boostic on tiny edges out doors , you just can't get the same leverage out of your feet and calves in a soft shoe, or I can't anyway

[CapitalistPunter]

I really like the toe box on the Otakis, quite stiff and very precise. They have the same last as the Skwamas.

Pete Dawson does all his hard redpoints in the lace up version of them which is even stiffer.

[Thedevonshirepiemuncher]

Can't get my foot in the otaki , the shoe pinches my foot really bad over the top where the first velcro strap is, a bit low volume I think
Never tried the kataki (the Lace version) but it does look great for edgy limestone

[CapitalistPunter]

Interesting to hear that, In my head the Otaki is a broader shoe since it feels so similar to the Skwama fit wise. Maybe it's because the rand is a bit tougher and doesn't mould quite as well. I think Macleod said that the Otakis don't fit him quite as well despite loving the Skwamas too actually.