[petejh]

Criteria for finding jumpy co-ordination moves outside:

Relatively large positive holds between sections of blank rock (no minging little intermediates possible).
Boulders require a manageable landing.
Routes just need safe bolting and fall zone. Because of this I think there's a higher likelihood of developing routes with jumpy co-ordination moves than boulders, unless clearance of landings through use of tools becomes more acceptable (not advocating this).

Slate? Gneiss? Any ocean-smoothed rock.

Angle probably fairly unimportant, although I imagine there might be a sweet-spot range of angles at which body momentum works best, in combination with the rock not getting in the way. Vert to gently overhanging would be my guess.

Just need the comp co-ordination wads to get on an ab rope and get developing, these routes won't climb themselves.

[Aussiegav]

Just need the comp co-ordination wads to get on an ab rope and get developing, these routes won't climb themselves.

Does anyone remember the Bandaloop Dancers on one of the old Masters of Stone movie. Bounding on a fixed line?

[crimpinainteasy]

The point about people finding beta to their strengths is definitely very true. You can definitely see the current generation of climbers adopting a more dynamic style outdoors, these 2 boulders being good examples

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWDdyK1oUFg/

[JamieG]

The youtube link shows a cool looking problem but in the end the simplest beta looks like it is just a one move dyno off an undercut. Its not quite the crazy multi-move competition problem the video tries to make it seem.

[haydn jones]

NSFW  :

You should come to BoulderUK where Vickers loves a new school pebble dual-texture shinner. I'll happily drink coffee and watch you try those problems in your trainers.

Can you get me a strong cappucino made with oatmilk please, PB. Ta.

Jesús Christ Fiend can you please put a NSFW filter on that shit. It's disgusting.

[Bradders]

I think we will see more coordination style problems outdoors. One significant barrier is probably the extra matting required to make attempts viable, but I'm far from convinced that rock does not lend itself to the movement.

Doubtful on this.  The chance of nature producing rock with holds the necessary angle, size, friction, orientation and distances apart to force coordination problems must be vanishingly small.  Also has to be close to the ground and have some kind of landing.... One for the outdoor boulder parks?

Rocklands has lots of potential, and indeed already has at least one double dyno that I can think of off the top of my head.

[mrjonathanr]

Strange to think comps are now based around the climbing style Johnny was so fascinated by years ago.

Looks like his ‘3rd generation dynos’ needed 3 generations to get established.

[Fiend]

Just been catching up on this, good discussion, much of interest etc.

I got kicked off the team on 2 occasions - I think officially I was encouraged to take a break from the team - due to not taking it seriously, something to do with missing a training weekend when I was in Pembroke, going out to Millstone on the evening after another training session - I was saving myself during the day, but I did do London Wall and White Wall that evening so worth it in my mind.

I'd rather they'd buy more crags (no offence Mr Mocho )

There's so much to discuss here, I'm sorry I don't have time to do it all justice, but anyway....

I agree with Nemo's point on setting style, but the 'comp specific' coordination jumps, etc, are a symptom of the boulder comp format which in my opinion is fundamentally flawed and doesn't represent bouldering as the sport it is. The current boulder format is a bastardisation of lead which it evolved from, and I consider a major change in the way boulder comps work is long overdue. I have ideas on this and will try some of these out at some point over the next year or so.

Coordination jumps are a way for setters to force the best climbers to have multiple attempts on a showy crowd pleasing boulder - this means everybody is happy (crowd, judges, organisers, etc)... apart from the setters and the athletes who don't like this bullshit in general. It ruins your skin, and success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement. BUT, it creates a good split in the ranking, so helps reduce the risk of ties for the setters, and this is something which is helpful in reducing stress for setters! I really don't like comps where the setters are too reliant on this circus bollocks, but it is increasingly the way things are going. Younger setters with less experience seem to be more reliant on this style. Older setters like me a) can't do this because b) our limbs will come off if we try and stick some of the crazy dynos the youngsters set...! That's why setting teams increasingly try to mix youngsters with older grits for a better mix of styles.

Likewise - problems that display athletes inhuman 'board strength' are also boring to watch if you are not a bouldering geek (and 99.9% of the new viewing audience are not), but are also nearly impossible to set at the right level nowadays.

Good comp setting (so some people think) is about getting an amazing show for the audience, a good smattering of tops, boulders that create some magic performances from the climbers, and boulders that challenge all the athletes skills.

The new IFSC format with 2 zones is another step towards making scoring easier to understand while missing the point of the bouldering. 2 zones means 2 scoring points on each climb, making it even more like lead.... Bouldering is about getting to the top - not dropping off when you've scored enough points.

Very interesting posts from the horse's mouth, cheers Percy.

“ They should bring back 5 minutes+ for bouldering.”

I agree, and revert to… Once you’ve started you can finish.

4+1 gets my vote, enough to allow proper last ditch attempts, but keep it short enough.

As much as many people (on the evidence of this thread) would like bouldering to basically be a test of finger strength and dieting on a sequence anyone could read, the reality is it about solving problems.

classic.

Pulling on small holds on a blank steep wall isn’t a very good test of general climbing performance though. You might as well just have the world dead hanging championships.

There should be a competition for who can do the most one armers on an 8mm edge.

Right from the beginning I said I'd rather have a deadhanging (or campussing, or most one armers on an 8mm edge) than speed-fucking-"climbing"....

Slate? Gneiss? Any ocean-smoothed rock.

The Tubes near Betws?

[Fiend]

My 0:02 as a fairly all-round punter who likes all sorts of rocks and movements and is both the polar opposite of a stretch-midget waif AND a springy slab ninja.

I really like watching the IFSC comps, and especially like watching the bouldering comps. Whilst there's always a few inevitable issues with difficulty balance (due to the setting challenges people have mentioned), overall the climbing, performances, movements, fun and challenges are inspiring to watch (including in the Olympics where the fucked-up format made the final results entirely irrelevant).

I'm sure there's much that could be improved to get the balance right in terms of being palatable to both climbing and non-climbing audiences, but as a climbing audience I generally really like what we've got right now. I'm not a fan of the pure coordination run and jump parkour stuff BUT I don't mind a bit of it as long as it doesn't dominate the setting (occasionally it does). I do like general blob wrestling with volumes where there's a bit of coordination / dynamism but also a lot of creative all-body movement (these also tend to have the most beta breaks, which I really like). I definitely like seeing the occasional neanderthal board climbing thug / crimp fest, it's all part of the broad variety of climbing.

Even so I'm glad to read that people like Percy are keen to keep progressing and keep trying to get it right 

[Duma]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcIQHf4L0kA/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

This has got reposted by a lot of the climbers at Meiringen today

[edshakey]

What problem are they attempting to solve?

[Duma]

Fuck knows, seems pointless. And extremely unpopular with the competitors!

[Duma]

And on the topic of comp formats, changes that have made it worse IMO in the last few years:

A) 4min. 4+ was much better, put a 1min cut off if you need to keep to a schedule. I've no interest in watching rushed climbing to beat the buzzer, which is what this tends to encourage, I guess the producers like it as they think it looks "exciting". Fuckwits.
B) Single sex semis/finals. I really liked having both M and F competing at the same time, it was pretty rare that clashes meant you missed crucial action, and anyway that could be fixed with better camera work/direction/use of split screen/replays. It highlighted the sex equality in climbing, and meant much less dead time (very important given how long a comp is).
C) Not sure if this is just Meiringen, or will be the case for all WCs, but having each sex's semis and finals on the same day is just stupid. It takes all weekend anyway, give the competitors time between rounds!

[Duma]

C) Not sure if this is just Meiringen, or will be the case for all WCs, but having each sex's semis and finals on the same day is just stupid. It takes all weekend anyway, give the competitors time between rounds!

Further to this, just had a look at the schedule (women's finals just started), and it's even worse for the men tomorrow - semis finish at 1315, isolation opens at 1400, and finals start at 1600! What on earth is the logic for this? Why change from semis one day, finals the next?? Please tell me it's not scheduling to fit around other stuff on Eurosport...