Quote from: Percy B on April 05, 2022, 05:06:36 pm success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement. Good post. This bit stuck out for me; this is just bouldering, or indeed climbing in general though surely? I can do without the jumps and stuff but I can see why they're useful for setters. I think its too simplistic to call for setting that reflects outdoor climbing as they would all just mince those problems, as Muenchener said.
success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement.
Quote from: spidermonkey09 on April 06, 2022, 08:56:12 amQuote from: Percy B on April 05, 2022, 05:06:36 pm success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement. Good post. This bit stuck out for me; this is just bouldering, or indeed climbing in general though surely? I can do without the jumps and stuff but I can see why they're useful for setters. I think its too simplistic to call for setting that reflects outdoor climbing as they would all just mince those problems, as Muenchener said.Consider a comp boulder problem that resembles Jade in Colorado. Ondra flashed it, Aidan did it in a couple of goes, others have taken longer I think. Seems like a perfect difficulty to split a field of competitors.And to others who have mentioned entertaining spectators, do any non climbers really sit and watch world cups with any regularity? Im completely obsessed with climbing but i still find competitions a boring watch, usually. If we just need to entertain people at the Olympics once every 4 years, why change our sport to satisfy others? Do other sports do this?
Maybe part of the problem is that the setters just aren't at the same strength level to make an equivalent. Not to discredit them but they're just not quite on this level so it's very hard to differentiate these marginal differences. Do we need some outdoor wads as professional testers for outdoor style problems.
Maybe if we want to replicate outdoors a bit more, the problems should be ultimately more 'basic' but with a bunch of decoy holds amongst the good ones, all just as chalked as each other. I can imagine that, with a new hold set that competitors haven't seen before, this would cause a fair few attempts for some people, while some might get up quickly. A more meaningful separation than parkour?
If we just need to entertain people at the Olympics once every 4 years, why change our sport to satisfy others? Do other sports do this?
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on April 06, 2022, 10:10:46 amQuote from: spidermonkey09 on April 06, 2022, 08:56:12 amQuote from: Percy B on April 05, 2022, 05:06:36 pm success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement. Good post. This bit stuck out for me; this is just bouldering, or indeed climbing in general though surely? I can do without the jumps and stuff but I can see why they're useful for setters. I think its too simplistic to call for setting that reflects outdoor climbing as they would all just mince those problems, as Muenchener said.Consider a comp boulder problem that resembles Jade in Colorado. Ondra flashed it, Aidan did it in a couple of goes, others have taken longer I think. Seems like a perfect difficulty to split a field of competitors.And to others who have mentioned entertaining spectators, do any non climbers really sit and watch world cups with any regularity? Im completely obsessed with climbing but i still find competitions a boring watch, usually. If we just need to entertain people at the Olympics once every 4 years, why change our sport to satisfy others? Do other sports do this?Maybe part of the problem is that the setters just aren't at the same strength level to make an equivalent. Not to discredit them but they're just not quite on this level so it's very hard to differentiate these marginal differences. Do we need some outdoor wads as professional testers for outdoor style problems.
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on April 06, 2022, 10:10:46 am If we just need to entertain people at the Olympics once every 4 years, why change our sport to satisfy others? Do other sports do this?Yes, one I know a bit about is judo. The competition rules for judo now are extremely different to those I grew up with and trained as a kid. The sport judo governing body took out leg-grab techniques for fear that it was perceived by spectators as too similar to freestyle and greco-roman wrestling, and therefore at risk of elimination as a separate Olympic sport. They changed grip-fighting and ground-fighting rules to make it look more flashy to spectators.
"I consider a major change in the way boulder comps work is long overdue. - Percy B"
"success is largely down to how quickly you can learn a contrived movement - Percy B"
"I was trying to say that a lot of dynamic coordination movement in modern comps bears no relation to what happens in bouldering in the real world. It's a new style of movement that is strictly the domain of comp athletes - Percy B"
"I think its too simplistic to call for setting that reflects outdoor climbing as they would all just mince those problems - spidermonkey09"
"Consider a comp boulder problem that resembles Jade in Colorado. Ondra flashed it, Aidan did it in a couple of goes, others have taken longer I think. Seems like a perfect difficulty to split a field of competitors. - LiamHutch89"
"problems that display athletes inhuman 'board strength' are also boring to watch if you are not a bouldering geek (and 99.9% of the new viewing audience are not) - Percy B"
"One thing I also find odd is that comps and increasingly indoor walls in general focus so much on big volume holds. I get that they allow changes in angle etc. but would it not be more impressive to see someone getting up an apparently blank piece of wall? - Dexter"
"but are also nearly impossible to set at the right level nowadays. - Percy B"
"Do we need some outdoor wads as professional testers for outdoor style problems."
"Maybe part of the problem is that the setters just aren't at the same strength level to make an equivalent. - Dexter"
"As much as many people (on the evidence of this thread) would like bouldering to basically be a test of finger strength and dieting on a sequence anyone could read - JB"
"do any non climbers really sit and watch world cups with any regularity? - LiamHutch89"
"trying to adapt boulder comps to make them work on TV, but the reality is it just doesn't really work."
"I've always found a hand jam, or a spot of chimneying sorts the wheat from the chaff"
"The new IFSC format with 2 zones is another step towards making scoring easier to understand while missing the point of the bouldering. 2 zones means 2 scoring points on each climb, making it even more like lead.... Bouldering is about getting to the top - not dropping off when you've scored enough points. - Percy B"
Quote from: teestub on March 21, 2022, 03:08:16 pmWell I think that might be a first for UK climbing, someone’s PR person responding on their behalf! Although Jerry probably got there first in the ‘90’s 😄Jerry is such a total legend, he almost certainly wouldn't have needed any additional PR or Marketing support!
Well I think that might be a first for UK climbing, someone’s PR person responding on their behalf! Although Jerry probably got there first in the ‘90’s 😄
Maybe if we want to replicate outdoors a bit more, the problems should be ultimately more 'basic' but with a bunch of decoy holds amongst the good ones,
"I find it funny watching people tell setters that it's easy to set things that are just the right difficulty in any style - abarro81"
Many moons ago me and Chris Plant got someone to make us a hold that looked like a fish. We put it on one of the routes at a BICC (Rockface in Birmingham). A couple of people asked us what it was there for, the answer being (or course), "oh that's just a red herring"
Quote from: GraemeA on April 06, 2022, 05:42:09 pmMany moons ago me and Chris Plant got someone to make us a hold that looked like a fish. We put it on one of the routes at a BICC (Rockface in Birmingham). A couple of people asked us what it was there for, the answer being (or course), "oh that's just a red herring"I thought it was so no one could knock Jerry off his perch.