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IFSC comps 2022 (Read 21922 times)

Duma

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#125 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 11, 2022, 01:55:22 pm
Just following on the app. Toby through in 6th - good to have a finalist for a home WC. Seems like a cruxy men's semi, half the field fell at 25, including 7 of the top 10 qualifiers.

edshakey

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#126 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 11, 2022, 07:50:19 pm
Not just a finalist now - a medallist!

Massive congrats to Toby, that's a hell of a way to enter the senior comps, and make the most of a rare home WC  :bow:

Duma

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#127 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 11, 2022, 08:17:46 pm
Yeah great result!

robertostallioni

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#128 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 07:19:51 am
Terrible for Edinburgh to not have no-tex  bolt-covers, when its basically standard now. We lost 2 finalists to bad route positioning in relation to bolts. Yoshiyuki Ogata would have finished second. Shouldn't still be happening.

jakk

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#129 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 09:10:46 am
Same chief routesetter as the catastrophe in Dallas for the youth worlds and for Brixen with the video where he laughs about the female competitors.....

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#130 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 09:22:14 am
positive: the low angle wall made for some interesting foot pops.

negatives: how are there no bolt covers??

                  How are the female finals too easy again??? incredible, no one wants to go to count back or time.
                 
                  Still no working clock in the screen, really?

webbo

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#131 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 09:31:16 am
There is a clock on the screen on Eurosport.

Bradders

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#132 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 10:08:03 am
How are the female finals too easy again??? incredible, no one wants to go to count back or time.

Hold on, I'm not sure that's fair. The route had two tops, one with a second to spare by the most on form competitor and other by Janja Garnbret who looked to me like she was trying really flipping hard!

The remaining competitors were very evenly distributed down the wall, I.e. no stopper moves just a hard route that was easy to drop in several places. I thought it was spot on.

abarro81

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#133 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 10:13:46 am
I've not watched it, but two tops doesn't sound too bad... unlike not covering or removing bolts, which I think is pretty egregious nowadays

i_a_coops

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#134 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 10:27:38 am
When every route gets topped multiple times and the decision basically comes down to time on the semis route, while the silver medallist climbed the finals route faster than the gold medallist, it must be pretty frustrating for the top women to feel like everything is getting decided on speed and luck - with Janja basically getting penalised for being strong enough to rest her way up most of the semis route. Especially when the top women are constantly pointing out that the routes are often too easy to split the top competitors.

Is the setting team mainly male? If so I wonder if this is part of the issue.

If only there was some kind of grading system for climbs so the route setters from one event could let the route setters at the next event know what difficulty they set and whether that was hard enough or not....

Anyway I'm gutted we didn't get to see a proper battle between Janja and Ai  :'(

robertostallioni

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#135 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 10:28:09 am
2 tops is not bad in isolation, but when you consider there were
6 females topping BOTH qualifiers and
3 females topping the semi (janja got timed out tho)
2 females topping the final.
Deffo not enough separation.

Duma

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#136 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 10:31:34 am
Every route in every round of the women's was topped by multiple climbers (I only have the app but think Janja topped the SF but was timed out?) There's no doubt this was too easy. When Janja was completely dominant it's no big deal if she waltzes up them so long as the rest of the field is split ok, but the last couple she hasn't been and it matters. Yes route setting is really hard, and judging the level correctly is really hard, but when your qualifiers are way too easy (7 tops and 9 tops, multiple other climbers within a move or two of the top)then make sure the semi gets a split. If the semi is also too easy (3 tops, 1 timed out?) Then you really need to ensure that the final splits the best climbers. If what jakk says is true then it seems there's an issue with this route setter?
Janja posted something on IG after the semis asking if it was possible to set with something other than jugs...

The bolt cover thing is unforgivable, wtf?!

Edit, lots of other folk beat me to it - what they said, basically.

jwi

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#137 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 11:00:10 am
The women's route was clearly way too easy for Garnbret and Mori. Especially Mori, I thought, who suddenly realised that she had been slow on the lower part and decided to waltz to the top post haste.

I am pretty sure that Chaehyun also would have topped if she could have paced the route freely. It should not come down to speed for three out of eight. I don't really care if the other athletes fall on the start of the route.

edshakey

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#138 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 11:07:31 am
Same chief routesetter as the catastrophe in Dallas for the youth worlds and for Brixen with the video where he laughs about the female competitors.....
Really?? Have you got a link - that sounds pretty terrible.

I wouldn't be surprised if Janja has a think about competing next year. She seems to have been pretty disillusioned with the setting for a long time now, and this weekend will surely only have added to that. Something needs to change, and soon.

GraemeA

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#139 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 12:25:04 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if Janja has a think about competing next year. She seems to have been pretty disillusioned with the setting for a long time now, and this weekend will surely only have added to that. Something needs to change, and soon.

I reckon Janja will compete next year for 2 reasons:
1) The process for qualifying for Paris 2024 will almost certainly require competing in 2023, and
2) National Team quotas are dependant on having high ranking athletes so the Slovenian federation will be keen for Janja to compete.

jakk

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#140 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 12:40:10 pm
Same chief routesetter as the catastrophe in Dallas for the youth worlds and for Brixen with the video where he laughs about the female competitors.....
Really?? Have you got a link - that sounds pretty terrible.

I wouldn't be surprised if Janja has a think about competing next year. She seems to have been pretty disillusioned with the setting for a long time now, and this weekend will surely only have added to that. Something needs to change, and soon.

I believe it was this one, somewhere in this second part (?)
Basically they are working on one of the women's semi boulders and joking like we should make it harder, but not TOO hard hahahaha, then in reality almost all of the 20 in semis topped it, about half flash...
Maybe some more stuff in there too but it's quite long and I was quite turned off after that and some other similar stuff. Editing can make anyone a villain but it seems somewhat of a theme.

edshakey

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#141 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 01:34:23 pm
I reckon Janja will compete next year for 2 reasons:
1) The process for qualifying for Paris 2024 will almost certainly require competing in 2023, and
2) National Team quotas are dependant on having high ranking athletes so the Slovenian federation will be keen for Janja to compete.
Agree on 1, that hadn't crossed my mind and i'm sure this would be enough to keep her. Hopefully it can be a good season that challenges her and the other top women.

I believe it was this one, somewhere in this second part (?)
Basically they are working on one of the women's semi boulders and joking like we should make it harder, but not TOO hard hahahaha, then in reality almost all of the 20 in semis topped it, about half flash...
Maybe some more stuff in there too but it's quite long and I was quite turned off after that and some other similar stuff. Editing can make anyone a villain but it seems somewhat of a theme.
I had a flick through and couldn't quite find it, but the video certainly goes to show how stark the lack of women setters on the circuit it. Maybe it would be less of an issue if there weren't problems with the setting for women's comps, but there evidently is a problem. To do the classic reversal: if the team was all women, and men's comps routinely suffered from poorly judged sets, then there would be no hesitation to suggest that the setters struggled due to their sex. Hopefully equally mixed setting teams is the solution, and it can be implemented sooner rather than later.

On a completely different note: it'll be interesting to see who enters the Jakarta cup, especially European athletes. I remember hearing Jim saying that he was unsure due to the cost of going all the way out there, and I'm sure any other self funded athletes who aren't in contention for season rankings or not in the best form right now might not be able to justify the trip. I'm sure the speed comp will be full of Indonesian athletes in particular and could provide some fast times/new WRs  :boxing:

jakk

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#142 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 01:53:01 pm
Also, just to be clear, I don't want to be some anonymous internet guy ragging on a real named human, and I know that setting is super super hard. I see this largely as an IFSC-wide problem across their setting, in a lack of general diversity in the teams, a lack of communication between different teams in different comps, a lack of standards/resources (the bolt covers), etc. It's hard yeah, but doesn't seem like they are trying that hard as an organisation on these issues

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#143 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 03:14:08 pm
Have they tried an IFSC comp where the men and woman have climbed the same route? That feels like something that would be good to work towards,

edshakey

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#144 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 03:37:12 pm


This happened last year, doubt it's the future of bouldering comps but would be interesting to see happen more often. I suppose it's similar to the attempts the GB Titans comp made to have a mixed comp.




GraemeA

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#145 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 04:04:01 pm


This happened last year, doubt it's the future of bouldering comps but would be interesting to see happen more often. I suppose it's similar to the attempts the GB Titans comp made to have a mixed comp.


The IFSC comp also had a lot of coaching involvement. the coaches did the observation and then decided which team members would try which problem eg if there was a slab you wouldn't put Alex Puccio on that boulder ;-)

It was an interesting comp (I was the Delegate), it's a pity that the IFSC haven't taken it further.

wasbeen

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#146 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 05:28:15 pm
mixed events sound a great idea to me - the Olympics seem to like the mixed relays in e.g. swimming and triathlon. The triathlon in particular was a lot more interesting than the individual events.

It seems the setters tend to underestimate the strength of the best woman. But I wonder if the difficulty is that there is a much bigger gap between the best woman and the 10th best woman versus the best man and the 10th best man.

Duma

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#147 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 12, 2022, 09:20:50 pm
It seems the setters tend to underestimate the strength of the best woman. But I wonder if the difficulty is that there is a much bigger gap between the best woman and the 10th best woman versus the best man and the 10th best man.

I agree the mens being closer makes it simpler, but I'd argue that when Janja was hugely dominant that didn't really complicate the routesetting - just make sure the rest of the women are split, and if Janja doesn't feel challenged then tough for her, but the competition is still fair and representing performances.

Now we have a situation with 2 or 3 competitors well clear, so it's vital the routes are hard enough to split those top athletes. Edinburgh essentially failed tell us who was the best climber!

danm

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#148 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 13, 2022, 01:40:24 pm
It seems the setters tend to underestimate the strength of the best woman. But I wonder if the difficulty is that there is a much bigger gap between the best woman and the 10th best woman versus the best man and the 10th best man.

I agree the mens being closer makes it simpler, but I'd argue that when Janja was hugely dominant that didn't really complicate the routesetting - just make sure the rest of the women are split, and if Janja doesn't feel challenged then tough for her, but the competition is still fair and representing performances.

Now we have a situation with 2 or 3 competitors well clear, so it's vital the routes are hard enough to split those top athletes. Edinburgh essentially failed tell us who was the best climber!
I have to disagree. It's a competitive discipline with clear rules which the athletes are fully aware of. Janja must have known that there was another climber on better form than her and that therefore a slow top might not win it for her? More importantly, it was brilliant to see Toby battle his way onto the podium and I'm slightly amazed that isn't the main focus of discussion here. First male podium in lead since 1994 I'm told, awesome if true. I was lucky enough to be given the opportunity to help out so I got to see some of the action, and returning from doing an airport run just in time to see Toby start in the finals was such a privilege.

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#149 Re: IFSC comps 2022
September 13, 2022, 01:48:26 pm
It seems the setters tend to underestimate the strength of the best woman. But I wonder if the difficulty is that there is a much bigger gap between the best woman and the 10th best woman versus the best man and the 10th best man.

I agree the mens being closer makes it simpler, but I'd argue that when Janja was hugely dominant that didn't really complicate the routesetting - just make sure the rest of the women are split, and if Janja doesn't feel challenged then tough for her, but the competition is still fair and representing performances.

Now we have a situation with 2 or 3 competitors well clear, so it's vital the routes are hard enough to split those top athletes. Edinburgh essentially failed tell us who was the best climber!
I have to disagree. It's a competitive discipline with clear rules which the athletes are fully aware of. Janja must have known that there was another climber on better form than her and that therefore a slow top might not win it for her? More importantly, it was brilliant to see Toby battle his way onto the podium and I'm slightly amazed that isn't the main focus of discussion here. First male podium in lead since 1994 I'm told, awesome if true. I was lucky enough to be given the opportunity to help out so I got to see some of the action, and returning from doing an airport run just in time to see Toby start in the finals was such a privilege.

Didn't Hamish McArthur get a bronze in one of the world cup lead competitions sometime last year? Not to take away at all from Toby's amazing effort.

 

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