[hongkongstuey]

okay - so i've found a massive weakness in my arsenal that basically means I'm destined to fail on any problem using burly undercuts - think steep walls (overhanging 20 deg or more), hands at or about waist to chest level and reasonable feet.

example is this, but with hand matched where the left is at the start:


or first move on this, which has been shutting me down for over a decade:


I know a simple solution will be mileage on this type of line in the gym but HK is a mess right now and climbing walls (and normal gyms too) have been shut since last Dec.

Anyone have any ideas for good exercises that could be used at home with bodyweight or free weights to help work this weakness?
 
Cheers, Stu

[jwi]

Pull-up with palms facing inwards. Auxiliary exercise: front raises, also with supinated grip.

[User deactivated.]

As JWI says will do the trick but I'd suggest a barbel row might be even more specific as the direction of pull is horizontal.

These types of undercut moves often need a lot of posterior chain strength too as you are putting an equal and opposite force through your feet. I suggested the barbel row over other types of rows at it works the lower back, hamstrings and glutes too.

[webbo]

Would deadlifts be useful. As often with these type of moves, you have push/ press hard with your feet as you pull.

[jwi]

imho any exercise that is not working against a fixed implement can only be auxiliary when we are training for climbing. So anything with free weights, rings/trx or bands can never be the main exercise. If the weakness is great auxiliary exercises might be a necessary evil, but transfer of strength onto rock is better if the implement against which we are applying force is fixed; that is why I do my rows on the underside of a table or from jugs in a roof.

[shark]

In a sense the floor is the fixed implement you are working against with deadlifts and as Webbo says I think it is a great exercise for pushing out and straightening up as you would on burly undercut moves.

[jwi]

I would not do deadlifts even if I payed to do them. YMMV.

[webbo]

imho any exercise that is not working against a fixed implement can only be auxiliary when we are training for climbing. So anything with free weights, rings/trx or bands can never be the main exercise. If the weakness is great auxiliary exercises might be a necessary evil, but transfer of strength onto rock is better if the implement against which we are applying force is fixed; that is why I do my rows on the underside of a table or from jugs in a roof.

Another option is to find a large pickup truck with those Bulls bars front bumper things and try and lift it off the ground.

[jwi]

imho any exercise that is not working against a fixed implement can only be auxiliary when we are training for climbing. So anything with free weights, rings/trx or bands can never be the main exercise. If the weakness is great auxiliary exercises might be a necessary evil, but transfer of strength onto rock is better if the implement against which we are applying force is fixed; that is why I do my rows on the underside of a table or from jugs in a roof.

Another option is to find a large pickup truck with those Bulls bars front bumper things and try and lift it off the ground.

This I can get behind. Try to curl it!

[User deactivated.]

imho any exercise that is not working against a fixed implement can only be auxiliary when we are training for climbing. So anything with free weights, rings/trx or bands can never be the main exercise. If the weakness is great auxiliary exercises might be a necessary evil, but transfer of strength onto rock is better if the implement against which we are applying force is fixed; that is why I do my rows on the underside of a table or from jugs in a roof.

If you can barbel row a lot then you can also row underside a table. Strong is strong.

Nowadays I prefer to do a lot of calisthenics type stuff instead of weights, because I enjoy it, but id be kidding myself if I thought front lever rows were a better option than barbell rows for increasing horizontal pulling strength. Anything with a bar and weights is so much more easily measured and progressively overloaded.

If you can make a weighted setup work whilst rowing under a table (e.g. weight vest) then this could be as good for the upper back muscles but misses the transfer to the feet thats often needed on undercuts IMO.

[Aussiegav]

Deleted. Misread the OP

[hongkongstuey]

cheers all, appreciate the ideas

as soon as the gyms open up again i'll just set myself a half dozen problems that frustrate the hell out me to work this weakness.

But for now i need to settle for the auxiliary options using free weights / TRX etc. until i get that access back - i've always just shelved these type of problems and filed them under the 'nemesis' category but figure it's about time to stop hiding from them... 

[mrjonathanr]

Nowadays I prefer to do a lot of calisthenics type stuff instead of weights, because I enjoy it, but id be kidding myself if I thought front lever rows were a better option than barbell rows for increasing horizontal pulling strength. Anything with a bar and weights is so much more easily measured and progressively overloaded.

What do you mean by front lever rows Liam? I find 15s semi tuck front levers on the rings really hard, can’t imagine doing a proper, static, fully extended one. I think - albeit without hard evidence - that the transfer to climbing is good because in addition to lats and shoulders, the core effort to maintain that position is tough.

Do you have your feet on something, or is it a pull from a true front lever?

Incidentally, for this particular exercise, the more fixed the anchor eg fingerboard or beam, the easier it is.

[User deactivated.]

Nowadays I prefer to do a lot of calisthenics type stuff instead of weights, because I enjoy it, but id be kidding myself if I thought front lever rows were a better option than barbell rows for increasing horizontal pulling strength. Anything with a bar and weights is so much more easily measured and progressively overloaded.

What do you mean by front lever rows Liam? I find 15s semi tuck front levers on the rings really hard, can’t imagine doing a proper, static, fully extended one. I think - albeit without hard evidence - that the transfer to climbing is good because in addition to lats and shoulders, the core effort to maintain that position is tough.

Do you have your feet on something, or is it a pull from a true front lever?

Incidentally, for this particular exercise, the more fixed the anchor eg fingerboard or beam, the easier it is.

A front lever row is rowing in a normal front lever without the feet being anchored. I can only do this in straddle position for a few reps. Give it a try in a full tuck on rings, it's pretty good if that puts you in the right rep range, but as I mentioned before it's difficult to progressively overloaded as the intensity increase between positions is quite big.

In relation to your progress on front levers, first they are very height dependent. E.g. at 6'2 and 82-83kg i find one arm pullups significantly easier than a full front lever, even for a few seconds.

Second I think static levers are very inefficient for building strength, I had much more success doing lever pulls where you pull through 180 degrees, with straight arms in your tuck position for reps. I think I had the most success from not doing them at all and just getting stronger at weighted pullups.

Third, the core demands are overstated for a front lever (if by core you essentially mean ab strength). If you can lie on a bench/table with your bum hanging off and keep your legs straight, that's all your core needs in a front lever. It's predominantly lats

[mrjonathanr]

Righto, thanks for clarifying.  Good effort! I’ll have a play with that later.