[Bonjoy]

Personally I'm in favour of building high quality outdoor boulder parks in cities, like Shoreditch but bigger, to bring outdoor bouldering to the people.

This.
I've been boring people about this idea for years. I think these would be amazing if someone with a bit of money and vision would ever get round to building one. They don't have to be for city parks only. I think they'd work well in cleared areas of forestry plantations, like the ones currently used for mountain bike trails. Artificial fonts, what's not to like. There's no barriers to building outdoor permanent boulders with lines as good or better than real rock, other than money and imagination. If there's anyone out there with a big bag of the former, I'd be happy to supply the latter.

[Johnny Brown]

How many artificial boulders are there in Sheffield? At least 5, not counting kids? Only the Heeley one seems to get used though, so seems like design has a way to go, or maybe wrong location. Would they be mobbed in Dalston?

On this basis the Shoreditch model might be the one to copy, just quarry massive lumps of granite. The cost would be 90% transport.

[Bonjoy]

That's the imagination barrier. Current boulders in Sheffield aim to provide multiple overlapping ways up, catering for all abilities, all on a single boulder. Not a recipe for Brad Pitesque unique lines. More a recipe for low grade versions of Pinches Wall. They totally lack the inspirational value of stand-alone lines. As such they're a poor halfway between current indoor climbing and bouldering on rock, having the downsides of both and the upsides of neither.

[SA Chris]

https://www.climbscotland.net/where-to-go/get-outdoors/cuningar-loop-boulders

Like this?

[Bonjoy]

The Sheaf (the newer Heeley one) boulder is the best of a bad lot and the one which sees the most use. Because the council gave the builders a bit more scope to cater for actual climbers. The others are aimed largely at non climbers, who it turns out don't actually climb, who knew.
But even the Sheaf boulder put too little emphasis on hold type number and orientation, instead putting effort into macro design and leaving the detail to the construction team.

[Bonjoy]

https://www.climbscotland.net/where-to-go/get-outdoors/cuningar-loop-boulders

Like this?

Still looks poorly designed and lacking the aesthetic value of real rock.
Large blocks of natural stone with some sculpting, like the Shoreditch boulder are great, but doubtless extremely expensive compared to steel frame and spray con.

[mrjonathanr]

Get Squawk to make a bunch of outdoor Broughtons.

[SA Chris]

https://www.climbscotland.net/where-to-go/get-outdoors/cuningar-loop-boulders

Like this?

Still looks poorly designed and lacking the aesthetic value of real rock.
Large blocks of natural stone with some sculpting, like the Shoreditch boulder are great, but doubtless extremely expensive compared to steel frame and spray con.

And likely to polish up in no time? They Cunningar ones are actually a lot more fun to climb on than they look, they had to strike a balance between materials and longevity and made something with tolerable roughness that seems to wear pretty well (although I've not been for about 4 years). 

[Falling Down]

I’d be _well_ keen on someone dropping  a dozen or so big granite blocks in Regents/Hyde/Queens Park, Hampstead Heath, Wormwood Scrubs etc. It’s so dry down here you could climb outside nearly every day of the year.

[petejh]

Bonjoy what would the investment case be for a bunch of large granite boulders to be purchased from Trefor quarry (finest grained granite outside of some Scottish islands, still used for curling stones) and dumped in city centre parks, for you to chisel away at? Or would it be purely altruistic to keep you in new problems?

[tomtom]

I’d be _well_ keen on someone dropping  a dozen or so big granite blocks in Regents/Hyde/Queens Park, Hampstead Heath, Wormwood Scrubs etc. It’s so dry down here you could climb outside nearly every day of the year.

Unfortunately - the logistics of this are really hard/expensive. Having worked with people who dump large rocks in rivers to stop their banks eroding (etc..) once you get above 1m by 1m by 1m it all starts getting really expensive. Such a rock will weigh 2-3 tonnes - which is do-able with regular flat bed artic and a JCB etc..

If you wanted a decent sized bouldering boulder. You're probably looking at something 3 by 3 by 3m - which is 27m3 (assuming 2.5 tonnes per m3) is 67 tonnes. Even if smaller you're looking at north of 40t. Not transportable via regular road networks - and would need a very special crane to get it into place. I guess you could slice it into bits - but wouldn't be a nice solution. If you look at actual stone blocks as sculptures/monuments/things outside buildings - they only ever go up to a certain size...

Hence - fibreglass/sprayed concrete options etc..

[galpinos]

I’d be _well_ keen on someone dropping  a dozen or so big granite blocks in Regents/Hyde/Queens Park, Hampstead Heath, Wormwood Scrubs etc. It’s so dry down here you could climb outside nearly every day of the year.

Unfortunately - the logistics of this are really hard/expensive. Having worked with people who dump large rocks in rivers to stop their banks eroding (etc..) once you get above 1m by 1m by 1m it all starts getting really expensive. Such a rock will weigh 2-3 tonnes - which is do-able with regular flat bed artic and a JCB etc..

If you wanted a decent sized bouldering boulder. You're probably looking at something 3 by 3 by 3m - which is 27m3 (assuming 2.5 tonnes per m3) is 67 tonnes. Even if smaller you're looking at north of 40t. Not transportable via regular road networks - and would need a very special crane to get it into place. I guess you could slice it into bits - but wouldn't be a nice solution. If you look at actual stone blocks as sculptures/monuments/things outside buildings - they only ever go up to a certain size...

Hence - fibreglass/sprayed concrete options etc..

Tomtom, what's the issue with a relatively small weight on normal roads? I am currently intending to move things along the normal road network and have been given a max weight of 500t. Is it just cost?

Edit: Good to see you back Tom!

[petejh]

44 tons the maximum total weight (load & vehicle) allowed on UK roads, unless special circumstances. According to this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hgv-maximum-weights/hgv-maximum-weights


That scuppers the granite boulders from Trefor quarry idea 

[Teaboy]

If only we knew who the contractors were that built Avebury, it’s the best mid grade bouldering venue I’ve been to in the UK so another one of them without the nimbyism would be perfect!

[SA Chris]

I love how this has wandered from Bosi to moving big Blocks.

[galpinos]

44 tons the maximum total weight (load & vehicle) allowed on UK roads, unless special circumstances. According to this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hgv-maximum-weights/hgv-maximum-weights

Is that not the limit allowed on a standard HGV though, not the road limit?

[teestub]

Nice film about the London ones, reading around seems to suggest they are about 60 tonnes.

https://www.peeruk.org/chrisdorleybrownjohnfrankland/

[jwi]

I’d be _well_ keen on someone dropping  a dozen or so big granite blocks in Regents/Hyde/Queens Park, Hampstead Heath, Wormwood Scrubs etc. It’s so dry down here you could climb outside nearly every day of the year.

Unfortunately - the logistics of this are really hard/expensive. Having worked with people who dump large rocks in rivers to stop their banks eroding (etc..) once you get above 1m by 1m by 1m it all starts getting really expensive. Such a rock will weigh 2-3 tonnes - which is do-able with regular flat bed artic and a JCB etc..

If you wanted a decent sized bouldering boulder. You're probably looking at something 3 by 3 by 3m - which is 27m3 (assuming 2.5 tonnes per m3) is 67 tonnes. Even if smaller you're looking at north of 40t. Not transportable via regular road networks - and would need a very special crane to get it into place. I guess you could slice it into bits - but wouldn't be a nice solution. If you look at actual stone blocks as sculptures/monuments/things outside buildings - they only ever go up to a certain size...

Hence - fibreglass/sprayed concrete options etc..

I looked into the weights of a gneiss boulder when we wanted to tilt an erratic boulder standing on flat rock situated close to downtown where I used to live ten years ago. We had already done all the obvious problems on the steep side and thought if we jack it up so it is about ten degrees steeper and pour some concrete under the other side, they would become about one grade harder. Turns out that the hydraulic jacks needed to flip a boulder are really expensive to rent. So it came to nothing, alas.

[remus]

I’d be _well_ keen on someone dropping  a dozen or so big granite blocks in Regents/Hyde/Queens Park, Hampstead Heath, Wormwood Scrubs etc. It’s so dry down here you could climb outside nearly every day of the year.

Unfortunately - the logistics of this are really hard/expensive. Having worked with people who dump large rocks in rivers to stop their banks eroding (etc..) once you get above 1m by 1m by 1m it all starts getting really expensive. Such a rock will weigh 2-3 tonnes - which is do-able with regular flat bed artic and a JCB etc..

If you wanted a decent sized bouldering boulder. You're probably looking at something 3 by 3 by 3m - which is 27m3 (assuming 2.5 tonnes per m3) is 67 tonnes. Even if smaller you're looking at north of 40t. Not transportable via regular road networks - and would need a very special crane to get it into place. I guess you could slice it into bits - but wouldn't be a nice solution. If you look at actual stone blocks as sculptures/monuments/things outside buildings - they only ever go up to a certain size...

Hence - fibreglass/sprayed concrete options etc..

I looked into the weights of a gneiss boulder when we wanted to tilt an erratic boulder standing on flat rock situated close to downtown where I used to live ten years ago. We had already done all the obvious problems on the steep side and thought if we jack it up so it is about ten degrees steeper and pour some concrete under the other side, they would become about one grade harder. Turns out that the hydraulic jacks needed to flip a boulder are really expensive to rent. So it came to nothing, alas.

That's interesting, I wonder what it is that makes them expensive? I know hydraulic presses in machine shops routinely go up to 100s of tons so presumably the components aren't super expensive. Maybe it's the form factor/logistics you need for usage out in the wild?

[petejh]

44 tons the maximum total weight (load & vehicle) allowed on UK roads, unless special circumstances. According to this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hgv-maximum-weights/hgv-maximum-weights

Is that not the limit allowed on a standard HGV though, not the road limit?

Appears to be yeah. I guess you'd need to know the max weight limit of the weakest section of any proposed road route from quarry to destination.
Possibly the weakest part would be any bridges on route. Bridge max weights for county of Warwickshire (I'm sure we al know these off top of our heads but for those who've forgotten): https://data.gov.uk/dataset/3fc40755-1559-4046-841c-69f4f891d69a/bridge-weight-limits

Then all we'd need are a few quotations:
2 of 3mx3mx3m blocks from a.n.quarry
Transport from quarry to destination
Heavy lift crane hire plus banksman, per day (2 days)
Bonjoy's chiselling services per day

Wonder if it'd come in under £100k...

[teestub]

This sent me down a rabbit hole! Looks like the heaviest item moved in the UK was a transformer for Cottam that was 600 tonnes and the transporter travelled at 4mph. Looks like barges are regularly used for stuff >100 tonnes, so maybe you’d be better shipping the boulders down the Thames and distributing them in riverside parks!

[shurt]

I love this idea.
I've actually got a deal with a friend of mine who's a Stonemason if I win the lottery. He's going to be tasked to fill part of my garden with a variety of boulders, different rock types etc.
It's good to dream, we've talked about it at length!!!

[remus]

Limestone blocs would solve a lot of these transport issues. Simply blast the block in to small, manageable pieces, transport at your leisure then rebuild them on location with huge quantities of sika. Et voila, a replica of the tor in your location of choice.

[casa]

We fairly regularly move 40ish Tonne steel loads (unofficially). A lowloader from Cardiff to London is circa £1500.00 per trip. A 100T crane you can get for approx £1000.00/day (crane size will depend on how close you can set up to where u need to be be).

[SA Chris]

This sent me down a rabbit hole! Looks like the heaviest item moved in the UK was a transformer

Must have been Omega Supreme, Optimus Prime is only the size or an artic.