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Burl (Read 5776 times)

cowboyhat

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#25 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 10:24:21 am

 my experience has always been the expected gainz on real rock aren't so obvious. I guess as far as technique goes, power corrupts.

Talk me through your experience training on a board....

Paul B

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#26 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 10:54:53 am
You can clearly gain a certain sort of strength on steep boards but my experience has always been the expected gainz on real rock aren't so obvious. I guess as far as technique goes, power corrupts.

Are you perhaps only thinking of people who got the balance/focus wrong?

Johnny Brown

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#27 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 11:24:47 am
Quote
Talk me through your experience training on a board....

I've never bothered, as you know. Just as you've never bothered burning me off on short sharp squeezy prows.

I'm sure it's great for climbing that resembles a steep board. I just rarely encounter that in the Uk, but seems it's everyone's go to training aid for everyone's training needs. Hammer, nail, etc...

Liamhutch89

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#28 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 11:39:05 am
While steep board climbing would likely be better, I reckon these would be the best 2 non climbing exercises for burl. If you can bench and row 1.5 times your bodyweight then you can automatically do all the supposedly more climbing specific exercises like T's on TRX, explosive pullups or muscle ups, etc. Probably way before reaching 1.5x actually. You wouldn't be found wanting more body strength at this point.
I don't think that's always true, based on my own experience. Bench feels like one of my stronger lifts, and although I can only do 1xBW, I can do that pretty consistently when everything else is ailing, and seeing previous comments on here, that's more than some much stronger boulderers can do. Equally, rows always feel comfortable when elbows allow, and the climbing coach I saw underestimated my max dumbbell rows by about 30% based on the rest of my abilities. BUT the concept of ever having "burl" (including the tests you mentioned) is so far beyond me it seems almost mythological.

I suspect the issue is, mundanely and inevitably, power-to-weight ratio, as it always is. Those lifts are all very well because they're irrespective of body weight, but the climbing or muscle-up burl isn't. OTOH they're both fun exercises, and work antagonists and directly-related-to-climbing muscles respectively so well worth doing if not a miracle cure for everyone.

I said the magic happens at 1.5x  ;)  :lol:

Anecdotally, the first time I ever tried a muscle up I did 0 reps as I got the timing wrong. A few minutes later on my 2nd try I did 6 reps and all I'd really done before was squats, bench, overhead press, rows, and deadlifts. I weighed about 90kg at the time. I don't think i've ever felt out-burled on a climb and it's always my puny fingers or suspect technique that are the weak links. N=1 but I believe being generally strong and without injury is the reason.

Fiend

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#29 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 11:52:04 am
You said "probably way before".... And that one could "automatically do muscle ups". I'm doing theorising bollox here, but say your "probably way before" means "1.25 x BW = muscle ups", then "1 x BW = 0.8 of a muscle up". No I have no idea what 0.8 of a muscle up might feel like but I do have an idea I have never been anywhere near that in the last decade. Or even half that.

Perving on your muscly tattooed videos and reading your posts, I suspect a LOT of that 90kg (at a respectable height) was muscle relevant to climbing burl (if not relevant to rat crimping, of course). And yes, as you say "being generally strong and without injury is the reason" is also the key (aka pipe dream).


Going back to the Gaz vs JB board thing.... It sounds like Gaz has got the problem pretty dialled (although watching a video it does look like JB's sort of thing as far as burl goes!!) so the technical pitfalls of board training are probably less relevant. It does look like some aspects in terms of movement and hold orientation could be replicated on a board, even if it's only a 30....

jwi

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#30 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 12:25:50 pm
I would not waste precious time and resources on bench press or deadlifts or other things that has close to zero transfer to climbing.

Why not climb burly boulder problems? They are not hard to find in franchise bouldering walls? Or in many bouldering areas?

I do not apologies for this obvious advise as following this discussion it does not seem to be that obvious.

GazM

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#31 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 12:41:20 pm
Thanks for the advice JWI but up here near Inverness the nearest franchise bouldering wall that might replicate this sort of thing is about 3hrs drive away! And as mentioned earlier, given life constraints I'm ideally looking for ways to improve at home rather than out at the crag, although I'll certainly be looking for similar styles of problem when I do get out.

jwi

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#32 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 01:06:22 pm
fair enough, doing board problems with good hand holds and really bad feet is pretty burly.

mr chaz

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#33 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 01:29:19 pm
I presume you've tried Taps Aff For POWER?

northern yob

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#34 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 01:31:04 pm
Quote
Talk me through your experience training on a board....

I've never bothered, as you know. Just as you've never bothered burning me off on short sharp squeezy prows.

I'm sure it's great for climbing that resembles a steep board. I just rarely encounter that in the Uk, but seems it's everyone's go to training aid for everyone's training needs. Hammer, nail, etc...

This is great….. is that because you’ve never climbed on a short sharp  squeezy prow with crimps rather than slopers on, or maybe a short squeezy limestone prow?? Or even a granite prow together….I get exactly where you are coming from Adam but I think the evidence defo points to a combination of technique and power as being literally the way forward for all climbing, and there’s no denying that boards can play a huge part in that… I despise a board nearly as much as you but it defo helps as does getting out and getting some mileage in!

Paul B

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#35 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 01:48:41 pm
I think the evidence defo points to a combination of technique and power as being literally the way forward for all climbing, and there’s no denying that boards can play a huge part in that… I despise a board nearly as much as you but it defo helps as does getting out and getting some mileage in!

Exactly this. Of the better climbers of my era I can't think of one which didn't rely on board climbing. Likewise, when considering the more recent wads. JB's approach is as blinkered as those of my generation who focussed on board climbing at the expense of all else ( :worms:) and is equally as poor!

I'm not sure NY that you hate boards as much as JB, you do have one?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 02:06:43 pm by Paul B »

SA Chris

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#36 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 02:01:01 pm
I presume you've tried Taps Aff For POWER?

In Scotland Taps Aff is automatic as soon as temperature hits positive numbers.

Bradders

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#37 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 07:20:27 pm
Quote
Talk me through your experience training on a board....
I'm sure it's great for climbing that resembles a steep board. I just rarely encounter that in the Uk, but seems it's everyone's go to training aid for everyone's training needs. Hammer, nail, etc...

If you climb anywhere other than the Eastern grit edges there is absolutely loads of board style climbing in the UK! Most things in Wales, basically everything in the Lakes, everything on the North Devon / Cornwall coastline, lots around Portland, plenty in Northumberland and most of the established things in Scotland away from Torridon in fact.

Fiend

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#38 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 07:31:17 pm
Thankfully there's plenty enough of the better stuff that ISN'T, though  :2thumbsup:

petejh

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#39 Re: Burl
March 10, 2022, 08:54:47 pm
I'm sure it's great for climbing that resembles a steep board. I just rarely encounter that in the Uk, because I rarely look for it ...

Saw this and thought I'd edit it for you.
But then my mind suddenly fast-forwarded to 2045, a Thursday evening, and JB - or Xing Pung as he is then known and understands himself to be (his old anglo-saxon identity having been force-forgotten in the 'great mind terror' that all citizens underwent during the mid-2030s 'citizen enlightenment' following the 10 years of darkness after the 2026 nuclear conflict) - is still a relatively weak but good techniqueophile climber who enjoys a solitary lap on the grit one evening per month when the regional war council allow him leave from his Beta management role of training Omega-class workers for life out in the endless great turbine projects of the far north China sea. He's online expressing on a UKB metaverse climbing discussion group how 'everyone trains power these days'.
While GazM (or Xing Ping as he then knows himself to be) still enjoys steep board-style climbing on the 2hrs recreation per week he's allowed away from his state-energy-company job doing 12hr maintenance shifts refilling battery cells with 'the fluid' (they pump from the military hospitals) out in the vast battery fields that now surround all cities.
And I realised there's no point to this endless discussion as some things will just never change.

 

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