[Wellsy]

1.5 BW bench is pretty nails. I'd love to get to that.

Psyche will be maintained! Pushing my strength for when I get back in action

[Fiend]

Although what I actually said was 1.5x bench and 1.5x pullup would equal muscle ups. Find me someone with those numbers who can't do a muscle up.

^^^ this seems to be a lot more realistic than...

While steep board climbing would likely be better, I reckon these would be the best 2 non climbing exercises for burl. If you can bench and row 1.5 times your bodyweight then you can automatically do all the supposedly more climbing exercises like T's on TRX, explosive pullups or muscle ups, etc. Probably way before reaching 1.5x actually. You wouldn't be found wanting more body strength at this point.

Yes it's nit-picking a bit*, but when we're talking about stuff at the limit the little bits count. Also it's a bit frustrating that even well fully uninjured and climbing fit, weights performance has never translated into climbing physical performance nearly as much as your first post. The updated one seems a more realistic correlation.

(* - and beating a dead horse AND hijacking wellsy's thread AND moaning again jfc I'm a fud I know)

[User deactivated.]

I was obviously pulling numbers out my arse but it just seemed obvious to me that someone who is generally strong will do well at burly climbing, and pullups and bench press are great exercises for building general strength. We've all seen the non-climber gym bro types who can campus all the v2's with socks under their rental shoes, but don't know what a slab is.

Out of interest how much have you been able to add to your weighted pullups over time without seeing an impact on your climbing?

[csl]

Footwork and I were once climbing at Jerrys roof when some strong lad explained that he thought the only things you need to train for climbing are bench and shoulder press, because climbing is mostly push movements - I was confused, but he did then fire off Mr Fantastic iirc 

[Paul B]

No climbing is misery inducing.

I'd try your best to get past this and focus on things you can do and do enjoy. You don't want to end up as a 1D Barrows bemoaning life because your finger hurts a bit (even if it is only capable of 9a). It's harder said than done of course (I've been there and my Wife would probably tell you I was a complete PITA at times when I've been truly injured).

Quite a while ago now I broke my leg spectacularly falling off at a bouldering wall and essentially stamping on my right leg with my left when landing (the Northern General did a great job of everything from A&E to fixing my leg as well as you might hope). I spent about 8 months with a frame but I was able to do plenty of weights once I was mobile. You do get funny looks rolling dumbbells at an empty bench and then hobbling after them.

[Fiend]

Congrats on your shoulder-press-derived speedy ascent of Mr Fantastic, LH89!

I was obviously pulling numbers out my arse but it just seemed obvious to me that someone who is generally strong will do well at burly climbing, and pullups and bench press are great exercises for building general strength. We've all seen the non-climber gym bro types who can campus all the v2's with socks under their rental shoes, but don't know what a slab is.

Out of interest how much have you been able to add to your weighted pullups over time without seeing an impact on your climbing?

Yes I think we agree it's obvious there are good links between general upper body strength, especially climbing-relevant-muscles strength, and climbing burl (once the fingers are trained ofc).

I was going to answer your question with "You really expect me to remember the very dim and distant past where I could do weighted pull-ups without things snapping??" and then I remembered, it was only 4 years ago - the first time I got tennis elbows in fact, from weighted pull-ups as part of general hard-for-me bouldering and training without enough rest. I vaguely recall 2 reps at +30kg and 1 pretty-much-a-rep-and-the-fucking-crossfitters-would-tick-it at +40kg, which is alarmingly bang on your pulled-out-of-arse 1.5 x BW. In terms of climbing stuff, I was doing okay in general, my deadhanging was okay, but could still only do 1-3-5 *just* and very occasionally on the campus board. I'm calling fast twitch muscle fibres and a significant difference between strength and explosive power (incidentally my half-decent benches are always so slow on successful maxes that it's like watching Moose staticking the Who Are We Without Moon dyno over several minutes....). I have been meaning to train explosive power more, but it's also even worse for tendons 

[Wellsy]

What do you reckon is harder to get to, 1.5 BW pullup or 1.5 BW bench

I think bench. A 1.5 BW bench is quite a lot. I can do like... 1.05? 1.1? Maybe? And I'd say for a climber thats pretty good actually.

[mrjonathanr]

 1xBW pull up is easy
1xBW bench requires a bit more oomph. Obvious which is harder.

[Fiend]

Bench by a long way. Maybe LH89's Extraordinarily Accurate Relative Strengths Comparometer (tm) could estimate what %BW pull-ups you should be able to do for 1.5xBW bench....

Actually I have wondered what the general comparisons "should" be for a relatively normal fit / strong climber as regards:

Number of pull-ups
Max weight pull-up
Max squat
Max deadlift
Max bench
Max overhead press
Max row
Max bicep curl

(insofar as they're clearly measurable)
(as kgs or proportions of body weight)

I do know from chatting to various people they vary quite a lot.... Wellsy stop despairing and get a proper scientific research UKB topic on the go

[moose]

(incidentally my half-decent benches are always so slow on successful maxes that it's like watching Moose staticking the Who Are We Without Moon dyno over several minutes....). I have been meaning to train explosive power more, but it's also even worse for tendons 

Shade! But also accurate re my utter lack of dynamism and burl. Sadly, I suspect I would fare even worse now - same faults but 7kg heavier.  Though weirdly, unless I suffer from the inverse of body dysmorphia I look no different - but the fingerboard tests are now far more punterish.

[User deactivated.]

Interesting question actually. At bodyweight there's no comparison, the bench press is harder. However, at the very top end, people bench a greater proportion of their bodyweight, all the way up to around 3.5x 

I suspect for most climbers a 1.5x pull up is much much easier.

[cheque]

Actually I have wondered what the general comparisons "should" be for a relatively normal fit / strong climber as regards:

Number of pull-ups
Max weight pull-up
Max squat
Max deadlift
Max bench
Max overhead press
Max row
Max bicep curl

Not the most recent time it’s been done but probably the most comprehensive.

[Fiend]

Do those people at the top end do pull-ups with 3.5 x BW as well??

P.S. Moose it's not a bug, it's a feature!!

[User deactivated.]

Do those people at the top end do pull-ups with 3.5 x BW as well??

I've never seen anything close to that. I'd be surprised if anyone has done 2.5x. Not sure if it's something inherent in the lifts or the fact the bench press is more widely contested. Probably both.

[Fiend]

Also that BW itself will be a massive factor in the pull-ups, I suppose total weight could be measured tho....

It seems a graph showing likely max pull-ups and likely max bench would fluctuate quite wildly through the strength categories from noob to beast then.

[User deactivated.]

Yeah probably. Once upon a time I could bench 135kg at just under 90kg bodyweight. I'd guess its around 110kg now at 80kg but I don't train it. My max pull up is +75kg, so that makes my best ever bench around 1.5x and pullups over 1.9x. Unfortunately max hangs are lower than both!

[Wellsy]

My max hangs (1.7 BW) piss on my max bench and are better than my max pulls. Interesting how people can have completely different strengths and weaknesses I always think.

[Wellsy]

Anyway my knee feels a bit better today. It's still kinda swollen though. Feels like that should have all gone by now?

[Fiend]

There will be a lot of ups and downs with swelling, pain, mobility, etc, for various reasons not least as the swelling eases off a bit and the mobility improves you will use it a bit more which will cause some temporary aggravation and maybe a bit of swelling blah blah #fuckinjuries also LH89 max pull-ups 1.9xBW no wonder you've got enough general burl 

[Yossarian]

I quite like the idea of doing BP again properly having not had the equipment (or any desire to go to a gym) for a long time because there does appear to be some consensus that it might not be a bad thing for my bouldering. However, in the past I did spend some time trying to get to 100kg (with a bodyweight around 90-100kg) and the closer I got the more the progress became glacial whilst my chest got so big I had to invest in a new wardrobe after I experienced a series of Incredible Hulkesque clothing accidents.

In comparison, I got up to 150kg pull-ups in one of the lockdowns (around 100kg BW) and, though I've been a bit sporadic with these since, I think I could get quite a lot further with them.

[Wellsy]

Having a thicker chest sounds pretty good to me. Both in terms of climbing but also just for general fitness. That said I target bodyweight percentages rather than absolute weight for that reason, getting to 100kgs is more useful for climbing if I don't do it by packing on a few kilos.

Also Fiend yeah fair that's good to know, it does seem variable in terms of swelling over the hours and days.

[abarro81]

Having a thicker chest sounds pretty good to me. Both in terms of climbing ...

If you weigh 100kg and want to improve at climbing then growing your chest sounds about as likely to be useful as learning to juggle. Waifs are more likely to benefit obviously.

[Wellsy]

I bet learning to juggle helps too :D but I take your point

[cheque]

Having a thicker chest sounds pretty good to me. Both in terms of climbing…

Not if you want to climb squeeze chimneys.

[SA Chris]

safely say that's neve been a want of mine.